What Moron Came Up With This?

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3056621/Over-75-Sign-ready-death-GPs-ask-older-patients-ll-agree-not-resuscitate-order.html

[Buenchico]

It seems to make perfect sense. I'd sign one right now.

[TWR]

Think of the Money the Government will save, that's what some will say.

[whirlyhurly]

Oh, I think it's that slippery slope to mass euthanasia.

[Jackdaw33]

How insensitive. My response might be, 'OK, as long as I'm freed from any taxation for the rest of my life'.

[Mamyalynne]

//In some surgeries, nurses are cold-calling patients over 75 or with long-term conditions and asking them over the phone if they have 'thought about resuscitation'. //


That's just wrong.

[Jackdaw33]

Makes you wonder why they bothered locking Shipman up, when he seems to have taken this on board twenty years before its time.

[jno]

sounds sensible to me. You often hear of patients with dementia or other degenerative ailments: their kids know they wouldn't want their life prolonged but can do nothing about it.

It's the Liverpool approach where doctors make the decision without telling anyone that's really appalling.

[Prudie]

I also think it's moronic and insensitive. Apart from a very few most will say resuscitate unless they're already seriously suffering.

[Sqad]

Carte Blanche? whatever the cause of the collapse.

I tend to agree with Buenchico in that it does make good sense, providing that the collapse was due to advanced cancer or severe stroke or chronic lung disease........but hey if it was due to a heart attack or hypoglycaemia, then i would want resuscitating.

Cut off at 75 years old......that is a young age.

So.....as it stands and as i understand it........i would be against such legislation.

[ludwig]

I thought they did that anyway. I mean if you're over a certain age they don't apply the same treatments as they do for a younger person - e.g they don't bother getting the crash cart and the electric paddles out as there'd be no point, it'd finish you off.
At least this way they're asking what you actually want.

[Mamyalynne]

Absolutely nothing against discussing with the patient a health plan and the possibility of a DNR or opinions on end of life care - but 'Cold calling' is a disgrace.

[jourdain2]

I don't normally swear (not more than a *** anyway) but this makes me want to tell any GP asking that of me or Mr J2 to go and do something very Anglo-Saxon and physically impossible. I'll calm down in a bit and read other opinions....mutter.....

[woofgang]

I think it depends on how its done whether its insensitive or not. I do think its a very good idea to have the discussion if it seems likely that such a decision will need to be acted upon in the foreseeable future. I agree that the "cold calling" is wrong but then there are thoughtless idiots in the medical and nursing professions as well as everywhere else.

[Mamyalynne]

My Mother pronounced her own DNR in 2000 when she told the Nurse who had just resuscitated her that if he did it again , she'd break his legs.

She died 2 days later.

[pixie373]

I agree with woofgang and mamya. A sensitive discussion with anyone (over 80, I'd say) or with debiltating illnesses makes sense to me. Why shouldn't they have the choice?

[Prudie]

No-one I think would disagree with having the sensitive discussion with people already with a debilitating disease. that's nowhere near the same as asking all 75s what they want. That's just scaremongering and also implies all 75 and over are about to drop dead - or at least need to worry that they might.

[jourdain2]

Fair enough, Mamya, but what a thing to be suggesting to perfectly healthy 76-and-upwards! It is calculated to make one introspective and think about the value of one's life and if in fact you are a burden in some way or another. This could tip some people who may be depressive, lonely and with the usual aches and pains into agreeing a DNR statement and then they could later have a heart episode but be more positively minded and have their statement waved at them.

I think it is the start of a very slippery slope, myself. Different if you are talking to a person whose life is likely to be limited and painful. Mr J2 is now 82 and, of course, has a few problems (some would be considered serious in this context, like heart things, but he is fine and we walked 5 miles the other day)- but he intends to go on forever, or at least until 100. Only hope I make it with him!

I really tend to agree with OP that it is moronic (whilst suspecting that it is a calculated shot across the bows to gauge reaction).

[ToraToraTora]

What I also hate is this tendency to arbitrarily pick an age for this sort of thing, I know an 84 year old who can bench 100kgs and does all sorts of fitness stuff. Yet I know people of 25 who look like they are going to expire so I hate this idea that age is in some way relevant to anything.

[Mamyalynne]

I realise from my replies it looks like I agree with the general 75 years rule - I don't I think it should be individual to each patient.

[pixie373]

Age is, because nobody will live forever.... This is supposed to be about a choice, not forcing people to sign something. It is already asked if you move into a residential home- and you only have to be 65 to move to those. Anyway, other illnesses like dementia might prevent someone from making their own decision. It just has to be clear in which circumstances it should or shouldn't be used.