Looks Like Th Pm Is Geting Ready To Rig The Eu Referendum Already!

[ToraToraTora]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-33144135
Are the purdah laws ok as they are? Presmably Dave wants to put the whole governement machine behind his view. Ok we can have a referendum but it'll give the answer we want capiesch! Yes Don Corleone!

[whiskeryron]

Nice one PP

[Canary42]

Surely it's all academic anyway since it's obvious from the last election that they've discovered an undetectable way of rigging the count.

[Apariah]

It will be a total fit up.

Cameron and his cronies from all sides of the house have their eyes fixed firmly on the EU gravy train once booted out of Westminster.

Has Balls got his snout in the trough with his mate Kinnokio yet?

[Gromit]

Yep, been saying that since Dave first announce the referendum...

// If the Conservatives win the election, the EU will throw us a bone, and the Conservative Party will campaign to stay in, as will Labour and the LibDems and Nationalists. The CBI and the Unions will also back the 'In' camp.
Gromit 16:29 Tue 30th Dec 2014 //

[Quizmonster]

It shouldn't be beyond a language expert to design voting-papers with a "Leave/Stay" option, rather than a "Yes/No" one, as Jim said above. These could be printed in such a way that one half of all papers have the 'Leave' option first and the other half have the 'Stay' option first. Thus, neither would be particularly favoured as regards positivity or placement.

[mikey4444]

Everything I predicted about the EU referendum and the Tory Party is starting to come true. The key sentence in the BBC ink is :::

"But several senior Tory backbenchers have threatened to vote against the government over the issue in the Commons on Tuesday"

dave's worst nightmare has arrived !

[jim360]

I suppose the problem the Tories are facing on this is that their majority is only superficial if the party is itself still divided on the issue. It's worrying, because an in/out EU referendum is too important an issue to be scuppered by inter-party politics.

[mikey4444]

jim....it always was going to get mixed up in party politics, which is why none of the main-stream Parties wanted to touch a referendum with a ruddy barge pole. Its only UKIP, and the BNP that actually wanted a referendum. None of the major parties want to come out of Europe, and that includes the nationalists in Scotland, Wales and NI.

If dave had realised that UKIP was going to end up as the damp squib that it is, he would never have promised a referendum in the run up to the Election.

I have been ridiculed on here in the past, when I have suggested that this issue alone could break the Tory Party, and its all coming horribly true.

[jim360]

Perhaps it was always going to. But it shouldn't be.

[mikey4444]

"But it shouldn't be"

I agree Jim, but when has Europe not been a polemic issue ?

I have said this before but as soon as Europe is mentioned, its not long before people start to be talk about warm beer, cricket and wasn't the Queen Mother wonderful. Its our Alamo moment. Its next to impossible to have a grown-up, informed debate, without all the usual nonsense coming from both sides. As we get closer to the date of the vote ( whenever that will be ! ), people will stir things up to fever pitch.

It will dominate the next year or two, and that is why, to fair to him, dave didn't want the ruddy referendum in the first place !

[ichkeria]

QM I don't see how 'leave' 'stay' is any more neutral than 'yes' 'no'
(As often remarked before of course Irish does not have words for 'yes' and 'no' so a bilingual ballot paper in that country would not have that option)

[ichkeria]

Quite right Mikey
Dave deserves all the hassle he's going to get over this and if he thinks it's going to settle the matter he is likely to be mistaken

[tonyav]

Might get a second referendum !
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11641133/Second-referendum-in-five-years-if-voters-choose-to-stay-in-EU.html

[jim360]

It's not necessarily any more neutral but it avoids certain potential problems one side might have of having to sell the "no" position and this is always harder. Since either "Should the UK remain part of the EU?" or "Should the UK leave the EU?" are leading-ish questions, for example. In the first case, most likely to be close to the actual wording, the "no" campaign for leaving has to combat being too negative; change to the second question and they could draw on a positive message instead ("Yes to freedom! Yes to an end to Brussels bureaucracy! Yes to being our own masters!", etc).

Seems that the compromise of having "remain" or "leave" as the options avoids that risk, at least. Inevitably someone will still complain that the debate was rigged. Might as well give them as little ammunition as possible.

It's vitally important that this debate be as fair and balanced as possible. If it is seen not to be, then the issue won't go away -- rather like neither of the last two referenda were decisive.

[mikey4444]

I can't see the remotest problem with the wording of the referendum :::

Do you think Britain should remain in the EU,

YES or NO.

What could be simpler than that ?

[jim360]

Don't forget that in the Scottish referendum, getting out of the UK got the "yes" vote. It's hard to tell if it made any real difference or not but certainly it changed the feel of the two campaigns -- I wouldn't be surprised if that gave a 2%-odd boost at the polls for the Yes vote. Not enough, obviously, to have made a difference in the end. But in a tight race you want to get every advantage you can.

[ichkeria]

In referendums generally people vote for the status quo
Unless it's a progressive country like Ireland of course :-)

[Quizmonster]

Mikey, the following question:

"Do you think Britain should leave the EU,

YES or NO?"

is equally simple, but gives the positive response to the other camp! That is precisely why I suggested two separate questions - in varied order throughout the country - neither of which was loaded.

[ToraToraTora]

yes QM has a point the side of the question with a yes answer has a slight advantage so I would simply have:

Regarding EU membership Britain should:
Stay
Leave