Greece

[redvanman]

The Greeks want the rest of the EU to keep them what a big Greek cheek

[ichkeria]

For once I agree partly with Tora here
In the case of Greece they have not really applied the so called austerity measures particularly efficiently
I also agree with Gromit though that the debt will certainly need restructuring and will probably never be paid off
But the way it's got now both sides are effectively staring each other out.
For say Germany now to turn round and say 'forget it let's just start again' would be crazy.
There'll be fudge and smokescreen: Most of the measures the referendum rejected will end up being accepted tho no doubt dressed up as something else

Whoever it was btw who suggested a euro zone-wide referendum must have had a sense of humour. That is one thing we don't need

[Peter Pedant]

Hey bouncey - where does a Vietnamese keep his dong ?
In his wallet ... Dong is viet currency

sorry a Bit of levity in this otherwise serious discussion -

and since the subject is Greece - hey everyone, does Greece have a govt. ?
The Geeks have just turned up at Brussels and asked: 'OK babies what now?' and the finance ministers replied 'well that was gonna be OUR question' and so they broke up without agreement.....

and the banks arent open in Greece ( OK for a socialist govt apparently ) and there is no money ( OK for a socialist govt )
and quite frankly it seems mad .....

[ToraToraTora]

I cannot believe the ECB et al are even talking to these charlatans. Stop the money stop talking to them shut up shop now and tell them to send and email with their proposals to the ECB. If the ECB reply then that's a starting point, if they don't then that's unacceptable. Tell them that and stop talking, end of. Let the fck3rs starve for all I care, does my swede in.

[DTCwordfan]

I thought Marks and Spencers had become Greek owned. I went to their ATM yesterday and found it was closed.......mentioned it to one of the staff that I know and she cracked up when I asked her about the ownership.

[bazwillrun]

"I cannot believe the ECB"

whats it got to do with them, didnt realise The bubbles played cricket....

look its pretty simple, why do people need to complicate things, last thing the eussr wants is to lose Greece from its club...even if it does lob them out of the euro and they leave the the new mighty empire, they will look to get them back in at a later date.

France has said today it will do all in its power to keep Greece in the new empire...wheres Napoleon when hes needed !? he was pretty good at empire building...fell apart in the end though...as they all do

[DTCwordfan]

70 years without warfare within the borders of EU, oh well give it up......

[bazwillrun]

how many times do people like you need to be told in spite of, not because of !

[DTCwordfan]

Bring back Napoleon, all is forgiven.....throw in Bismarck too while you are at it.

[ichkeria]

"Bring back Napoleon, all is forgiven.....throw in Bismarck too while you are at it. !"

lol

[jourdain2]

I hit the wrong key and lost a reasonably erudite answer!

DTC, there was a long time between the end of the Napoleonic wars and the outbreak of WW1, with no major war in-between (I grant the Franco-Prussian etc.).

I'm sorry for the ordinary Greek people led up the creek by their politicians.

I was going to say that I vaguely remember, I think (someone will correct me if I'm wrong) that in 1953 (?) the Greeks wrote off the German debt owed to them after war by 50%. If I'm right, surely it is time for a little bit of payback in terms of allowing more time.

[DTCwordfan]

No wars in Europe - let's have a look at that a little more....

1817–1864 Russian conquest of the Caucasus
1821–1832 Greek War of Independence
1821 Wallachian uprising of 1821
1823 French invasion of Spain
1826–1828 Russo–Persian War
1827 War of the Malcontents
1828–1829 Russo-Turkish War
1828–1834 Liberal Wars
1830 Ten Days Campaign (following the Belgian Revolt)
1830–1831 November Uprising
1831 Canut revolts
1831–1832 Great Bosnian uprising
1831–1836 Tithe War
1832 War in the Vendée and Chouannerie of 1832
1832 June Rebellion
1833–1839 First Carlist War
1833–1839 Albanian Revolts of 1833–1839
1843–1844 Albanian Revolt of 1843–1844
1846 Galician slaughter
1846–1849 Second Carlist War
1847 Albanian Revolt of 1847
1847 Sonderbund War
1848–1849 Hungarian Revolution and War of Independence
1848–1851 First Schleswig War
1848–1866 Wars of Italian Independence
1848–1849 First Italian Independence War
1859 Second Italian War of Independence
1866 Third Italian War of Independence
1853–1856 Crimean War
1854 Epirus Revolt of 1854
1858 Mahtra War
1861–62 Montenegrin–Ottoman War (1861–62)
1863–1864 January Uprising
1864 Second Schleswig War
1866 Austro-Prussian War
1866–1869 Cretan Revolt
1867 Fenian Rising
1870–1871 Franco-Prussian War
1872–1876 Third Carlist War
1873–1874 Cantonal Revolution
1875–77 Herzegovina Uprising (1875–77)
1876–78 Serbo-Turkish War (1876–78)
1876–78 Montenegrin-Ottoman War (1876-1878)
1877–1878 Russo–Turkish War
1878 Epirus Revolt of 1878
1885 Serbo-Bulgarian War
1897 Greco–Turkish War

1903 Ilinden Uprising
1904–1908 Macedonian Struggle
1905 Łódź insurrection
1907 1907 Romanian Peasants' Revolt
1910 Albanian Revolt of 1910
1911–1912 Italo-Turkish War
1912–1913 Balkan Wars

I rest my case......

[DTCwordfan]

However, there has to be compromise on both sides and it ain't going to be solved by us. Personally, I think the restructuring has to involve Italian/French/Spanish/Portuguese debt, along with the Irish, perhaps phased over the next decade, a pseudo Marshall Plan perhaps to take this forward, one question being how much are we in for, and Q2, how much for the Americans, as they have remained pretty quiet over this - so far.

[jourdain2]

OK DTC, I hold my hands up - but I did say 'major wars' and I was really thinking about the ones that involved the UK. My fault for misreading 'wars in Europe'. Britain was fairly peaceful about Europe - occupied elsewhere! I don't think the EU is essential for peace. A common market (which is what we agreed to and I support) does the job - which is why I voted for it.

[DTCwordfan]

there is a point in my list though, look how many of those spats are Greco-Balkan - my cynical view is that a deal will be struck as the EU and USA do not want to see Russia with an air or naval base or both in the eastern side of the Med......

[jourdain2]

That has been my view also DTC - a couple of nice little Greek islands would be very acceptable to Mr. Putin.

[jourdain2]

DTC PS - It's a very good list! :)

[DTCwordfan]

a cut and paste job from wilki!!! It does have its advantages.....

[Gromit]

Of course, the people urging no compromise on the Greek debt, and no more bail-out, are the same people who desperately want the €uro to fail and who want the EU to collapse. They should be careful what they wish for, if those two events did occur, there would be dire consequences for this country.

The EU and the €uro are not going to fail. The EU will do everything possible to keep Greece.

[mushroom25]

"thursday is the final deadline", says donald tusk, european council president.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33437797
of course, we all know it won't be, because the eurozone summit on sunday will then be declared "the final deadline", and so ad infinitum. france have said they will do everything to keep greece in the euro; which will probably mean a big fat greek write off.