Does This Make You Sick?

[Togo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3191768/DAILY-MAIL-COMMENT-End-international-abuse-NHS.html

This must be the reason why we all have to wait for NHS treatment.

[Peter Pedant]

sorry was that non-sequitur intended to be ironic/satiric ?

the reason why we wait for treatment is that we tolerate an underfunded service...

[Svejk]

Yes.

[anotheoldgit]

Peter Pedant

/// the reason why we wait for treatment is that we tolerate an underfunded service... ///

It is not underfunded as you state, it is because there are far to many using it's facilities that have no right to.

Make them pay to help to fund it, rather than the poor gullible UK tax payer pumping more of their money into it, so as to provide the rest of the world with it's services.

[Peter Pedant]

Do you have any evidence for that statement AOG

at least the stat I would use to back up mine is that the per cent of the GDP spent on health is one of the lowest in Europe ( was very low twenty y ago but thatis another story ) -

[Tizzi24]

Yes, it's disgraceful.

[Cloverjo]

I don't believe it's quite that easy to get an EHIC card. The doctors don't have stacks of them waiting at reception for anyone who asks. You have to fill in a form to apply, and one is sent to you at a UK address.

[lindapalmara]

Cloverjo

//I don't believe it's quite that easy to get an EHIC card. The doctors don't have stacks of them waiting at reception for anyone who asks. You have to fill in a form to apply, and one is sent to you at a UK address.//

What an incredibly naive statement. Everyone in Eastern Europe knows someone who's moved here. They fill in the form then post it back to their mate in Hungary who uses it and we pay. The Hungarian Hospitals are quite happy to bull us. Supposed to be for Emergency treatment but anything can be treated when someone else is paying the bill!

[lindapalmara]

'Quite happy to Bill us'

[Togo]

You can apply for the card ONLINE! Peter some of us use the Answerbank for an answer to every question, not question for every answer. £721 million in 5yrs does not reflect a service that is short of funds. It reflects a service being run by people who would deliberately sabotage it or people who have not got a clue.

[Sqad]

PP

\\\the reason why we wait for treatment is that we tolerate an underfunded service...\\\

1997......about £40 billion was spent on the NHS
2013....about £120 billion was spent on the NHS.

so in 16 years the amount spent has not doubled...it has TREBLED......that is not my idea of underfunding.

The NHS must move into the 21Century............but it can't .....it,s hands are handcuffed by the unrealistic demands of the electorate.

Yes........in answer to your question Yogo.....it does make me sick.

[Togo]

Peter what is 10% of GBs GDP, compared to say Bulgaria, or Hungary in real money?

[Peter Pedant]

andhere we have a graph of health expenditure as % of GDP
and yes well done -
we are the bottom line....
http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/data-and-charts/uk-health-spending-share-gdp

Sqad we spend about £2k per head on the NHS ....

" Health expenditure as percent of GDP has dropped from 9.1 percent in 2007 to 7.7 in 2011, " Jesus that is jordan by comparison .....

[Peter Pedant]

Togo that is why it is used an international comparison

it is supposed to normalise or scale up or down so a fair comparison can be made taking into account various confounding factors. Yes I realise that scaling can be done to taste however % GDP is a well worn one

[Sqad]

PP...that is the problem with the NHS and many governmental statistics, you can pick your statistics to suit your argument.
I would not believe any statistics that applied to the NHS...........

It has to change.....it has to divert money, from primary care, to the hospitals......the old set up of GP led health care is an anachronism....well it is to me.

[Khandro]

NHS, a noble idea which no longer works and needs drastic reforming, but who is going to do it? It has become an absurd sacred cow, but change = loss of votes and outrage by a public, as ever, desirous of what they think is something for nothing.

[mushroom25]

an admission from HMG:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-33843758

[anotheoldgit]

/// An investigation by the Daily Mail found people who had never worked in Britain were able to obtain a free EHIC card in the UK, the paper says. ///

Well done the Daily Mail.

[Sqad]

Mushroom

\\\\To obtain a card online, an applicant must provide a personal NHS number, which is allocated upon registration at a GP practice.\\\

Is that "personal NHS number" different to your NI number?

[slaney]

Do keep up Daily Mail - EHIC rules changed last year - co-payments stopped...

http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/EHIC/Pages/EHICchanges.aspx

Obviously far easier to blame pesky foreigners for huge NHS deficit using unsubstantiated anecdotes.

[jno]

OMG, the NSH has paid out £720 million to other countries!

But hang on... isn't that exactly what the card's for?

Oh, you mean that some of these people are dastardly foreigners? How many?

Strangely, the Mail doesn't say. They've found one journalist who did. She asked some unnamed staff at an unnamed clinic, who said "A lot".

lindapalmara immediately blows this up into "everyone in Eastern Europe" knowing someone here.

No wonder the country's going to the dogs... its people will believe anything they read and never ask about a "fact".