We Could Have A Severe Nursing Shortage This Winter.

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34191123

"Chief executive, Danny Mortimer, told BBC News: "These are nurses who've been recruited and could start work in the NHS shortly - but we can't get them into the country"

It seems that our obsession with keeping Jonny Foreigner out of Britain is akin to cutting off our noses, to spite our faces.

[Baldric]

My Wife was a Direct Entry Midwife a good few years ago, and was a Midwifery Sister for over 30 years (stayed at Sister Level 'cause she enjoyed the Job) she has now moved onwards and upwards and is no-longer hands-on.
Her opinion of a lot of new recruits that have gone down the University Route is that they are a liability when they first go on the wards and need a lot more supervision than most of the newly arrived overseas Recruits.

[New Judge]

Quite so, Balders. There was never an issue training nurses twenty or thirty years ago. Like many things in the UK a simple process has been unnecessarily complicated to such a degree that it no longer works.

If I’ve grasped what has been said correctly, the UK provides overseas aid money, some of which may be used to train nurses. Those nurses then come to the UK to fill posts that the country cannot fill from people already here because there is no money to train them. Sounds like sound governance.

The UK should revert to training its own nurses from scratch. There’s no need for them to go to University. The nurses trained abroad can then minister to the sick there.

[bazwillrun]

but like most things, theres probably other motives for recruiting from overseas, especially when you see the countries they tend to focus on !

dont see many european countries being targeted...

[New Judge]

Now now, baz !!!!!!

[Sqad]

Problem with training our own nurses, is that more will emigrate, about 6-7000 nurses are emigrating each year to the U.S, Canada and Australia for better pay and conditions of work.
So, we need to import more nurses.

As for junior medical staff, they are also emigrating, this being made worse by the disastrous decision to accept more FEMALE students into our Medical Schools .....a disastrous decision.

[New Judge]

So basically then sqad, we import nurses from places where they may not, perhaps, have been trained so well simply because we do not pay them enough to remain here. Again, sounds like good governance.

[Sqad]

New Judge...sorry....i didn't get that.

Probably my fault, not yours.

[stuey]

This doesn't answer the original question; however, I thought I'd mention training. My wife trained as a nurse many years ago here in Ontario. The school was attached to the hospital. She says they spent about three hours a day in the classroom, and five hours on the wards, obviously under supervision. They spent three years doing this rotating through the various departments and services, including the food preparation and laundry. When they graduated they really deserved the status of wearing that black band on their hat. Prior to her retirement she worked with the new crop of university "trained" nurses...She said that they were absolutely fantastic at looking things up in the text-books!

[stuey]

And their computers also, of course.

[stuey]

I forgot to mention that as well as being trained in the general hospital, they had to do training in two other specialized ones: the well know "Sick Kids" pediatric hospital in Toronto, and also a psychiatric hospital.

[mikey4444]

I have just come in from work, and have read all the replies. Its quite right about the need to train our own young people to be Nurses, and I have never been quite sure why they all to go University.

But we have a problem now, as well as 3-4 years time. If we don't let in some Nurses from abroad, we are facing a very serious situation as we go into the winter, which will be with us before we know it.

The Government can ease this situation immediately, by letting in more foreign staff, and they can do that tomorrow morning. We need to list Nursing as an occupation with serious shortages, which will get around the ludicrous state we are now in, of having Nurses who have been interviewed and recruited, but can't the necessary work visas.

Mrs May needs to pull her ruddy finger out NOW !

[Old_Geezer]

The problem is that apply a short term fix and the longer term solution is never done because folk always point of there is a present problem needing thw short term fix again. Maybe ex-nusing staff can be persuaded to come back for a while.

Were I in charge of NHS finance I'd point out to government that training UK citizens takes them off welfare and the savings should be passed over in addition to existing funding, earmarked for the training budget.

[EDDIE51]

Whatever the reason a degree is now compulsory to qualify as a nurse.
Without a degree you can only be a ward orderly (or whatever the term is now) Nurses can now go on to become 'Nurse Practitioners '
(almost a doctor)
When I had a suspected epileptic fit, I saw not a doctor but a nurse practitioner, who was able to prescribe medication. ( or in my case, cancel medication previously prescribed)

[New Judge]

A probable reason that a degree is now necessary, Eddie is that secondary education (which used to be sufficient for such jobs) now isn't.

[EDDIE51]

^^ Yes NJ a nurse now has to be able to handle complex equipment such as drug dosing /heart/lung function monitors. The 'bed pans ' and such are the job of 'ward orderlies' and all cleaning is by contract staff on minimum wage.

[Jackdaw33]

I believe the correct term now is 'nursing assistant'. Also, NJ is right about secondary education. In addition, the practice of awarding degrees in anything and everything to my mind diminishes the value of a degree. I do not consider a B.A. in Media Studies to be equal to one in Classics or History. nor a B.Sc. in Nursing equivalent to one in astrophysics.