Guns,campuses And Madness

[pastafreak]

Please read this.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/04/opinion/sunday/frank-bruni-guns-campuses-and-madness.html?smid=nytcore-ipad-share&;smprod=nytcore-ipad&_r=0

[tonyav]

This is madness. When it comes to guns, we have lost our bearings in this country, allowing misguided chest-thumping about a constitutional amendment penned in an entirely different epoch, under entirely different circumstances, to trump all prudence and decency.

Totally agree, absolute madness.

[pastafreak]

That was sent to me by my brother...I felt tears of both anger and so much sadness.

[Tilly2]

The thing is, nothing is going to change. It will happen time and time again.

[tonyav]

Your right, it won't change without radical changes to their gun laws. Nobody seems to want to do that though ( politicians that is ).

[pastafreak]

I know Tilly...that is what is so frustratingly obvious.

[ludwig]

To be honest I don't care very much. It's America's issue, and that's a big grown up country that can sort out it's own affairs. If anyone starts to trying to introduce the same stupidity over here, that's when I'll get upset.

[pastafreak]

Thanks for your opinion Ludwig. I'm an American in the UK,so yes...I am upset.

[jourdain2]

'Through the Looking-Glass' thinking - i.e. madness. But it has been proved over the years that America is not, in essence, sane on this matter. I don't think that anything will change, sad.

[Clanad]

I surely understand what the situation looks like with guns here in the U.S., but… I received this e-mail just today and it certainly balances the discussion…

Australian Gun Law Update
Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts....
From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia
Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like... to see the real
figures from Down Under.

It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own
government, a program costing Australia taxpayers more than $500 million dollars.

The first year results are now in:

Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 percent)!

In the state of Victoria…..alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent.(Note that while the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not and criminals still possess their guns!)

While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed that their prey is unarmed.There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins andassaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.

Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns....' You won't see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.

The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in thehands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.

Take note Americans, before it's too late!
Will you be one of the sheep to turn yours in?
WHY? You will need it.

It should also be noted that this latest tragedy occurred at a University that had declared itself 'Gun Free Zone' and had numerous posters proclaiming such scattered over the campus. The deranged shooter knew he would be unopposed...

[jno]

lots of Swiss have guns. In fact, I think young men are required to have them, kept at home for when they do military service. By and large they don't have massacres - but sometimes they do

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zug_massacre

[jno]

Mr Chenel's email is nearly 20 years old, so it wouldn't hurt to see some more recent information. He doesn't seem to have provided any (assuming he exists).

[Hypognosis]

@Clanad

It's an unsolicited email, so it must be true. Right?

[vulcan42]

it's a strange situation, a bit like combating congestion on the roads by insisting there must be more cars.

[EDDIE51]

Clanad you are 20 years out of date with that information!! but you must have known that, I know that you are far too intelligent and well read for that not to be the case, so I assume it is deliberate misinformation?
Real results of Australian gun control here
http://mic.com/articles/123049/19-years-after-passing-strict-gun-control-laws-here-s-what-happened-in-australia
Now only 30 gun homicides a year in Australia !!! armed robbery massively down, read it for yourself!

[EDDIE51]

^^ It is true that there was an initial backlash against gun control in Australia but it lasted less than 2 years. (which may have been when your email was sent!) The gun control law was, after the 2 years argument, passed unopposed by both the main political parties.

[Hypognosis]

And it's covered by Snopes (I googled a paragraph from Clanad's post). Snopes had not even updated since 2011, the email is that old.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/statistics/ausguns.asp

A salutary lesson in the frequently misleading aspects if percentage change versus absolute change, small sample size and other problems with statistics.

When someone has a message to peddle, see how easy it is to shape the statistics to get it to convey that message well without, technically, lying. But it is misdirecting your attention to what they want you to believe will apply to you, in your situation. Note the cultural differences, pointed out in this article.

By the way is Australia's population still less than that of London?

[jno]

about twice as big, I think, Hypognosis.

[jno]

London 8.63 million

Australia 23.13 million

[EDDIE51]

Greater London 8.2 million at the 2011 census, Australia 23 million so around 3x the population of London.

[shoota]

It is a terrible and regrettable state of affairs but these instances of homicidal lunatics and terrorists are becoming a fact of modern life.
The state cannot be everywhere and provide protection all the time especially in these days of ever reducing Police and defence budgets.
Is it not right that people should have the ability to protect themselves and their families, colleagues, classmates and other innocent citizens?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3258253/Gunman-police-headquarters-shooting-15-year-old-radicalised-youth.html

Is it not lucky that in this case armed response was but a few yards away? Would it not have been good if an armed person were outside trooper Rigby's barracks that day or outside the offices of Charlie Hebdo?