English Votes For English Laws

[tonyav]

English votes for English laws is passed in parliament.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/row-over-disunited-kingdom-as-mps-approves-english-votes/ar-BBmkUdR?li=AAaeUIW

[Old_Geezer]

It's a sticking plaster solution. They started devolution creating a tier of government for Northern Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, albeit not identical in each case, but left England out. The only sane next option (given that which had already gone before) was to correct that error and give England a tier of government also. Arsing about with vetoes in the UK parliament is an illogical work around.

[Old_Geezer]

And claims about it being an insult to Scotland, making them second class citizens, is rather offensive nonsense, to any decent minded person.

[Romaz]

I agree that the most sensible and fairest option would be to create a devolved English Parliament not this cack handed affair we have been landed with, but I beg to differ about it not being offensive to Scotland, as a Scot I find it highly offensive that my democratic elected MP can be excluded from some debates on the whim of the speaker and by natural extension it would be very difficult from now on for any Scottish MP to hold any cabinet post. By the way I am aware of the irony seeing as Scotland will probably be returning SNP MP's for the foreseeable future.

[Romaz]

Wow, my post was polite and my opinion is as valid as yours Tora and I would be grateful if you didn't call me names. That is the tactics of the playground and I am all grown up.

[ToraToraTora]

I'm am commenting on the original post, I have not referred to you or your post.

[Noe-schitt]

It's a crazy situation take Wales as an example they have MPs elected to Parliament who don't / can't / represent / debate Welsh devolved matters as that is done by a separate set of AMs in the Welsh Assembly so they only have half a job if they are not allowed to take part in England only matters they only have quarter of a job this goes for Scotland and Northern Ireland and if they create an English Parliament it applies to all MPs. Think they have got a pay rise to.

[Romaz]

Apologies if I got it wrong, but even so by calling the Scots Sweaties, you were in fact calling me names. There is little hope for the union as it is, but belittling each other will just brings the end a little nearer, don't you think?

[ToraToraTora]

it's common use rhyming slang, not meant to be offensive at all.

[Togo]

On the local Welsh news this evening there was great concern being expressed that England may have sole say on what treatment is to be afforded to Welsh patients in English hospitals in the North West. The very same reporters and tv commentators who revel in the independent Wales movement. Laugh. I nearly did. They followed it up with a piece explaining that the local Health Board ( dominated by Welsh Labour) was to stay in special measures for 2 years. They really did not seem to understand the irony of not only holding 1 false position, but now adopting a second, and blaming England for them both.

[Old_Geezer]

If the issue was debated in an English Parliament rather than a UK one Scots would still be excluded. Are the English to claim they are second class citizens because they aren't allowed to debate issues affecting only Scotland ? (As opposed to being treated as second class citizens because they are not deemed worthy of their own government tier like all the rest I mean.)

[Togo]

//There is little hope for the union as it is,//
True.
//belittling each other will just brings the end a little nearer, don't you think?//
Or let England have a vote on devolution.
The problem is the Scots, Welsh, and indeed the Irish take deep gasps and profess themselves to be sons and daughters of their soil. But they do so covet the English pound.

[Romaz]

***, I'm in favour of an English 'devolved' parliament, but not a high jacked English 'lower' parliament that devalues the existing UK parliament. If you want an English Parliament then vote for one, do not devalue the existing arrangement for something inferior that will fail.

[SirOracle]

Romaz I too have chided TTT on numerous occasions concerning his use of the word "Sweaties",to no avail.

He persists in using this derogatory term almost on a weekly basis. I can only assume that he is some form of "Little Englander"and cannot help himself. Old habits die hard.

[ummmm]

I've said it to him too. He's been told on numerous occasions, from Scottish people, that they find it offensive.

[Romaz]

I despair, this country is heading for destruction, If you think that we are so avaricious that we think only profit above making a living then there is no hope left, and the race to the bottom continues. I would also make the point that while we are 'One Nation' there is no such thing as 'the English Pound', the currency of the UK is just that, the UK all of it!

[Jackdaw33]

Wales is by law legally part of England , and has been since 1536. That's why they only have an Assembly and not a parliament.

[Hypognosis]

@ToraToraTora
it's common use rhyming slang, not meant to be offensive at all.

I never heard this expression until I started using AB. I vaguely remember posting specifically to ask you what it meant. I have seen you personaly or others, on your behalf, explain its meaning to other AB members who are, at the minimum, "middle aged", on at least five other occasions.
Enough recurrences for me to believe that most non-Londoners have never heard the expression used.
It does not feature on telly or radio. Not PC, I imagine.
I somehow spent 15 years in London without meeting anyone who professed to be cockney, or ever used that phrase.

I am English but still dislike the sight of you poking them with a stick. You're making us look bad.

[Hypognosis]

@tonyav

Devolution is rapidly beginning to look like half-hearted independence. Diverging legal frameworks just creates confusion for everyone and invites cross-border trips to exploit whichever side has the more favourable law (not everyone in England can justify the petrol cost of scoring a free prescription, say, beyond a certain round-trip mileage so anomalies aren't fair on the many).

Go for full independance and face the full consequence in terms of tax and setting up your own currency or keep the union intact and *then* your MP has every right to influence laws because they have nationwide effect.

It's this wanting to have their own cake (devolution) and eat England's too (preventing English devolution) which I don't understand.

[steg]

I find it offensive too and mentiond it several times, maybe it's about time Ab Editor should do something about it