Body & Soul1 min ago
Should Cameron Now Do A U-Turn Regarding The Amount Of Refugees Allowed Into Britain.
25 Answers
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Mr Cameron, one single heart wrenching photo made you change your mind regarding refugees, now can the killings in France and the destruction of the airliner, crew and passengers, now make you think again?
The British public have.
http://
Mr Cameron, one single heart wrenching photo made you change your mind regarding refugees, now can the killings in France and the destruction of the airliner, crew and passengers, now make you think again?
The British public have.
http://
Answers
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Gromit
/// Haven't you asked this same question about 3 times since last Saturday? ///
No, this is a completely different question, which introduces the British people's feelings on the matter.
But I agree for almost every thread on the question of the recent Paris bombings you have made the same statement.
"The Paris bombers were not refugees, they were nationals".
Even if it is true and there is some doubt, what the hell as that got do do with it?
Can you categorically state that there are not one potential terrorist among the hordes of peoples from numerous countries, who are now swarming across Europe in their tens of thousands?
/// Haven't you asked this same question about 3 times since last Saturday? ///
No, this is a completely different question, which introduces the British people's feelings on the matter.
But I agree for almost every thread on the question of the recent Paris bombings you have made the same statement.
"The Paris bombers were not refugees, they were nationals".
Even if it is true and there is some doubt, what the hell as that got do do with it?
Can you categorically state that there are not one potential terrorist among the hordes of peoples from numerous countries, who are now swarming across Europe in their tens of thousands?
-- answer removed --
AOG,
I cannot guarantee there is not a potential terrorist in the 6,000 refugees due to arrive the UK.
Your other post this morning is about a tourist to Hungary being a potential terrorist. Can you guarantee that there are no terrorists in the 34 million foreign tourists that visit this country every year?
I cannot guarantee there is not a potential terrorist in the 6,000 refugees due to arrive the UK.
Your other post this morning is about a tourist to Hungary being a potential terrorist. Can you guarantee that there are no terrorists in the 34 million foreign tourists that visit this country every year?
"Same answer: the Paris bombers were not refugees, they were nationals."
At least one of them categorically was not. He had crossed, fairly recently, from Turkey to Greece, was processed there as a Syrian "refugee" and had made his way across mainland Europe courtesy of the Schengen Agreement. As has been mentioned, there is no knowing how many more among the hundreds of thousands allowed into the EU are of the same persuasion.
Whilst it is true that many of the perpetrators of the Paris atrocity were French or Belgian “nationals” that does not really mean too much. As I said in an earlier question, none of them carried names such as Jacques Couteau or Hercules Poirot and it was clear that they were not of European origin. They were either “refugees” themselves, who had been granted citizenship or recent descendants of refugees. In any event, there is a clear risk, however small, in continuing to allow vast numbers of people into Europe about whom we know little or nothing. That risk lies not only with the people themselves who are arriving, but with their descendants.
The issue for me is not so much about those whom the UK is allowing in. We are told (though just how credible it may be is somewhat debateable) that those who arrive here have been “carefully vetted”. The far greater risk lies in those whom are being allowed unfettered access to the whole of mainland Europe. The 20,000 the UK is thinking of taking over five years pale into insignificance when compared to those numbers. However they are “allocated” (and already that scheme is descending into chaos as more and more EU nations refuse to have anything to do with foreigners being “allocated” within their borders) will matter not a jot. They will immediately move to where they want to be (which will not be Slovakia, Slovenia the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Romania or Hungary) because there is nothing to stop them from doing so (Schengen again). Furthermore, they will be granted EU citizenship (probably sooner rather than later) as the EU will not countenance vast numbers of people in its bloc having second class citizenship) an then they will be free to move to non-Schengen countries (such as er… the UK).
The EU dithers whilst all this is going on. In the meantime, as was bound to happen when the brown stuff hits the fan, it’s every country for itself. Walls and fences are springing up across the continent and, as with the euro, instead of a controlled and orderly return to a more sensible situation, chaos is the order of the day. The migrant problem has been acute since the early summer and in those six or seven months all the EU maniacs have done is to devise a quota system to allocate migrants to member countries, many of whom are having none of it. Meantime the chaos continues with no end in sight and in among that chaos are bound to be people like the Paris nutcases who will simply melt into the background until their time comes.
If anybody can successfully argue that this is in the best interests of the people of Europe (which is, after all, what individual governments and the EU should concentrate their minds on) I'd be more than willing to listen. But not fo too long.
At least one of them categorically was not. He had crossed, fairly recently, from Turkey to Greece, was processed there as a Syrian "refugee" and had made his way across mainland Europe courtesy of the Schengen Agreement. As has been mentioned, there is no knowing how many more among the hundreds of thousands allowed into the EU are of the same persuasion.
Whilst it is true that many of the perpetrators of the Paris atrocity were French or Belgian “nationals” that does not really mean too much. As I said in an earlier question, none of them carried names such as Jacques Couteau or Hercules Poirot and it was clear that they were not of European origin. They were either “refugees” themselves, who had been granted citizenship or recent descendants of refugees. In any event, there is a clear risk, however small, in continuing to allow vast numbers of people into Europe about whom we know little or nothing. That risk lies not only with the people themselves who are arriving, but with their descendants.
The issue for me is not so much about those whom the UK is allowing in. We are told (though just how credible it may be is somewhat debateable) that those who arrive here have been “carefully vetted”. The far greater risk lies in those whom are being allowed unfettered access to the whole of mainland Europe. The 20,000 the UK is thinking of taking over five years pale into insignificance when compared to those numbers. However they are “allocated” (and already that scheme is descending into chaos as more and more EU nations refuse to have anything to do with foreigners being “allocated” within their borders) will matter not a jot. They will immediately move to where they want to be (which will not be Slovakia, Slovenia the Czech Republic, Bulgaria, Romania or Hungary) because there is nothing to stop them from doing so (Schengen again). Furthermore, they will be granted EU citizenship (probably sooner rather than later) as the EU will not countenance vast numbers of people in its bloc having second class citizenship) an then they will be free to move to non-Schengen countries (such as er… the UK).
The EU dithers whilst all this is going on. In the meantime, as was bound to happen when the brown stuff hits the fan, it’s every country for itself. Walls and fences are springing up across the continent and, as with the euro, instead of a controlled and orderly return to a more sensible situation, chaos is the order of the day. The migrant problem has been acute since the early summer and in those six or seven months all the EU maniacs have done is to devise a quota system to allocate migrants to member countries, many of whom are having none of it. Meantime the chaos continues with no end in sight and in among that chaos are bound to be people like the Paris nutcases who will simply melt into the background until their time comes.
If anybody can successfully argue that this is in the best interests of the people of Europe (which is, after all, what individual governments and the EU should concentrate their minds on) I'd be more than willing to listen. But not fo too long.
Gromit, //the Paris bombers were not refugees, they were nationals.//
To my knowledge you're the third person here to say that in recent days - as though it makes some sort of difference. Firstly, it is possible that they were not all nationals - at least one is suspected of arriving from Syria in October - and secondly, their country of origin is irrelevant because whatever they are, they all have one thing in common. They are Muslims with a grudge against the west - and there are plenty more like them out there.
To my knowledge you're the third person here to say that in recent days - as though it makes some sort of difference. Firstly, it is possible that they were not all nationals - at least one is suspected of arriving from Syria in October - and secondly, their country of origin is irrelevant because whatever they are, they all have one thing in common. They are Muslims with a grudge against the west - and there are plenty more like them out there.
Gromit
/// AOG,
I cannot guarantee there is not a potential terrorist in the 6,000 refugees due to arrive the UK. ///
/// Your other post this morning is about a tourist to Hungary being a potential terrorist. Can you guarantee that there are no terrorists in the 34 million foreign tourists that visit this country every year? 12:40 Thu 19th Nov 2015 ///
Didn't you post exactly the same verse and passage as this at 12:38 Thu 19th Nov 2015 but on a different thread.
No matter how many times you regurgitate this, on this argument you have lost so miserably.
/// AOG,
I cannot guarantee there is not a potential terrorist in the 6,000 refugees due to arrive the UK. ///
/// Your other post this morning is about a tourist to Hungary being a potential terrorist. Can you guarantee that there are no terrorists in the 34 million foreign tourists that visit this country every year? 12:40 Thu 19th Nov 2015 ///
Didn't you post exactly the same verse and passage as this at 12:38 Thu 19th Nov 2015 but on a different thread.
No matter how many times you regurgitate this, on this argument you have lost so miserably.
Gromit, //I agree that it is the enemy within who we should be worried about, which is why claiming the refugees are the threat is bogus. //
Why is it bogus? The enemy within who have come here from other countries was once the enemy ... without. They don't abandon their philosophy the moment they reach Europe. It makes no difference where they live - and a piece of rubber stamped paper doesn't make them French, or British, or German.
Why is it bogus? The enemy within who have come here from other countries was once the enemy ... without. They don't abandon their philosophy the moment they reach Europe. It makes no difference where they live - and a piece of rubber stamped paper doesn't make them French, or British, or German.
"I agree that it is the enemy within who we should be worried about, which is why claiming the refugees are the threat is bogus."
So then, in among the many hundreds of thousands of people that have made their way from various places across the globe and who have arrived in western Europe (arrivals who - unlike the tourists you mention - have pitched up uninvited (except by Frau Merkel), without leave to land or remain and often without identification) there will nobody about whom we should be concerned?
To help you understand this viewpoint consider this, which was announced today:
“The suspected ringleader of the Paris attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, was among those killed in a French police raid on Wednesday, prosecutors say. They confirmed the Islamic State (IS) militant had died in a flat in the Paris suburb of Saint Denis. His body was found riddled with bullets and shrapnel in the apartment. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said he had received intelligence that Abaaoud passed through Greece on his return from Syria. It is unclear whether the Belgian had concealed himself among the thousands of migrants arriving in Greece before heading for other EU nations.”
This is a BBC report, an organisation not usually renowned for its right wing immigrant bashing agenda. It is not solely the origin of the people marauding across Europe. It is the fact that because of the uncontrolled chaos there is ample opportunity for people like the “Belgian” Mr Abaaoud to roam freely around, slipping unnoticed between Europe and Syria. If the EU’s external borders were properly policed his movements would have been recorded and some suspicions aroused. Furthermore if the now totally discredited Schengen Agreement had not been in force he would have been required to present himself at every border between Greece and France. I’m not saying it would have prevented him doing what he did but it may have made it just a teeny bit more difficult. That is what the EU and national governments should concentrate their minds on, not facilitating movement once uninvited guests arrive. It is utter madness to allow this uncontrolled movement of people between Europe and the Middle East to continue unabated whilst the security threat is such that it is.
So then, in among the many hundreds of thousands of people that have made their way from various places across the globe and who have arrived in western Europe (arrivals who - unlike the tourists you mention - have pitched up uninvited (except by Frau Merkel), without leave to land or remain and often without identification) there will nobody about whom we should be concerned?
To help you understand this viewpoint consider this, which was announced today:
“The suspected ringleader of the Paris attacks, Abdelhamid Abaaoud, was among those killed in a French police raid on Wednesday, prosecutors say. They confirmed the Islamic State (IS) militant had died in a flat in the Paris suburb of Saint Denis. His body was found riddled with bullets and shrapnel in the apartment. Interior Minister Bernard Cazeneuve said he had received intelligence that Abaaoud passed through Greece on his return from Syria. It is unclear whether the Belgian had concealed himself among the thousands of migrants arriving in Greece before heading for other EU nations.”
This is a BBC report, an organisation not usually renowned for its right wing immigrant bashing agenda. It is not solely the origin of the people marauding across Europe. It is the fact that because of the uncontrolled chaos there is ample opportunity for people like the “Belgian” Mr Abaaoud to roam freely around, slipping unnoticed between Europe and Syria. If the EU’s external borders were properly policed his movements would have been recorded and some suspicions aroused. Furthermore if the now totally discredited Schengen Agreement had not been in force he would have been required to present himself at every border between Greece and France. I’m not saying it would have prevented him doing what he did but it may have made it just a teeny bit more difficult. That is what the EU and national governments should concentrate their minds on, not facilitating movement once uninvited guests arrive. It is utter madness to allow this uncontrolled movement of people between Europe and the Middle East to continue unabated whilst the security threat is such that it is.
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