Brown or Blair

[Ding-Dong]

I think it is quite clearly apparent, even to a dyed in the wool Tory like me, that GB is an excellent politician, incredibly intelligent and has heaps of integrity (which, let's face it is becoming rarer nowadays in the lower house, particulary after the early deaths of Cook & Mowlem), and is certainly more trustworthy than Blair, however, despite his speech yesterday, I feel he is 'Old Labour', and as a 'middle Englander' who is already paying the higher rate, this genuinely concerns me.

So for me, I'd prefer Blair to continue for the foreseeable future - better the devil you know and all that - until the Conservatives are capable of mounting a reasonable fist of fighting an election (although in their current state, this won't be for a while yet - I'm not even convinced they have enough time before the next election - alas).

Am I right to be concerned about GB? The last thing this country needs is a return to 'old' Labour.

[january_bug]

I personally think that the Old Labour thing is designed to appease the Unions. 

I don't think he'd make radically Socialist Reforms and swing back to the left.  To be honest, I think he'd carry on in much the same vein, policy-wise, but in a less smarmy, and more trustworthy way. 

I'd rather see Brown in power than the Tories, although I do wish they'd get their butts in gear.  I don't see myself ever voting Conservative, but then since I've been of voting age they haven't presented a credible opposition.  In fact it's been a decade since they've properly fulfilled that role.  I feel it's very important to have a well organised and credible opposition, even if it's one I personally wouldn't vote for, because we need a constant challenge to the government. 

Contrary to popular belief, I'm not a big Blair fan, and I'd rather see Brown than Blair in power.  But I'd rather EITHER of them in charge than the Tories.  In fact, at the moment, I'd rather David Blunkett's dog were in power over the current Tory party, because I think the dog is more organised, and a better leader (not meant as a sick joke about a Blind Dog, I just mean that I think even a dog is  more organised than the Tories.  I presume you all know what I mean!  Honestly not meaning to offend anyone!)

[Dom Tuk]

Mr. Stealth Tax and integrity dont go hand in hand. I will not raise taxes and does it indirectly more than 80 times. No more marriage allowance...but here have a child credit tax allowance...errm...you have to wait one year to get it and ...errmmm it does not work either. No increase in taxes but well NI contribution is not a tax is it so lets raise that ceiling.

And what was the story about him in some scottish university student union and forcing the uni to sell some land/shares in South Africa very cheaply because of the apartheid regime (vaguely remember that) and the uni lost a lot of money.

Yeah better the devil you know......Also who will take over as chancellor if GB becomes PM. Blunkett??

[Dom Tuk]

No it will be Blunketts dog as chancellor.

[OBonio]

Pensions..... this man thieves from the old.

[Ding-Dong]

oops - forgot all about the pensions theft.

[VINNY100_2]

Yes Id rather have blunkets dog as PM than any tory."The Tories are old-fashioned,Heartless Toffs"mr browns words!3 schools in my area have had new classrooms built.There's a brand new sure-start center just opened.And the local hospital is having millions spent on it.Keep it up labour.Looking forward to a few more terms under a new primeminister.mr Brown.

[january_bug]

The pensions crisis is largely of our own making anyway.  So many people these days are running up credit bills/buying on credit and spending beyond their means that they can't afford to save any extra. 

We demand governments that tax low and spend high, and then complain when a deficit appears in the budget. 

We can't eat our cake now, and still have it left when we're 65. 

That's common sense, not Mr Brown OR Mr Blair's fault. 

[OBonio]

Whilst I agree that the spendthrift society is partially to blame for the potential pensions crisis, you can't honestly sit there and say Brown is innocent. This man is raking it in from OUR savings for OUR futures. I'm now putting mine under my mattress ;o)

As for who should be next PM.... I would prefer Blair. He annoys me less.

[january_bug]

I'm not saying he's blameless.  I'm just saying that it's time that people (generally) smelt the coffee and realised that we need to look after ourselves as the Welfare State is no longer something we can depend upon.  My generation has had student grants turned to student loans, and the people a couple of years younger than me now have higher fees, and we all know that by the time we reach 60,  private AND public pensions will not be able to meet our basic needs.  It's not rocket science to see that we have to save now!  Seriously, why can't people see that having the latest plasma screen TV/DVDs/Jimmy Choos might SEEM vital now, but when you're 80 and can't afford the gas bill, you'll be up the creek and a DVD don't work as a paddle. 

It's probably true that Brown could do things differently, but then a better pensions fund would surely mean less spending for other things.  How do you decide what to cut?  (Apart from the oh-so-obvious answer of, pull out of Iraq). 

[Ward-Minter]

One thing worse than a wispy haired communist running the country and that's a Scotchman running the country.

Old Labour, New Labour all the bloody same. Commies who seek to penalise the slightly better off all because they are hard working, law abiding, christian, predominately white, tattoo free, hetrosexual decent folk who don't waste all they money on Mayfair lights and Tennants Extra.

All the time Lady Thatcher is alive there is a chance this country may again be great. What we really need though is a right wing government that is not afraid to be right wing. That is privatise absolutely everything and withdraw all govt. intervention in a proper free market economy.

Another ward-minter rant maybe, but those who saw that appauling Blair and his minger of a wife at the Labour Conference must have thought the sickophantic tw4ts in the audience needed a dam good slap.

[january_bug]

And presumably we should burn anyone who's any of the following:

• Not white
• Gay
• Tatoo'd
• Not a practising Christian
• Breaks the law
• Unemployed
• A smoker
• A drinker

Is that your plan/manifesto?

If EVER there was a reason to vote Labour, you just gave me it on a plate, if that's the way the Conservatives are going. 

You're entitled to your view, I just think you'll have to go back to 1930 odd in Germany to enjoy it. 

[Ward-Minter]

I think burming is a little strong january bug.

I myself have a tattoo (army Corp)

I myself have a black wife

I myself am NOT a practising Christian

However, regarding criminals and "some" of the unemployed I totally agree that burming would be a viable option.

Just when I thought we were starting to agree JB. Oh dear.

[bloodycheap]

I think you'll find GB is a scotsman like myself and not a man with a drink of whisky. Do I also detect some inter-UK racism here? For many years we have had to suffer at the hands of English born politicians and look at the bloody mess they've made.

[Ward-Minter]

bloody cheap. Answer me this. If England were beaten by Germany in Football, or by France in rugby, etc etc etc you support anyone apart from the English.

Same as the Welsh. You want independence, you can have it. The only decent scotchmen are those in the armed forces. God there is nothing worse than some inbred gingered beard sweaty harping on about how great there are and how the English screwed them over. If history ruled my opinions I would hate the Nordics, the French, the Spanish, the Romans, The Germans, The Irish, The Sudanese, The Afghans, The Iraqis, The Serbians, The Rhodesians, The Argentinans and even the Americans. Is there any other country we have fought a war with?????????

Chill out bro with your haggis and Irn Bru and thank your lucky stars England is only a Berwick away.

 

PS  I like Rod Stewart and think Edinburgh is one of the most attractive cities in the world. Esp. all those underground alleyways.

[january_bug]

Ward-Minter, from you post it strongly implied that you have an utter dislike for people the opposite of those on the list.  That's whereI made my assumption. 

You do realise, that a far right party would not have allowed your marriage, and god help your children if they are of mixed race - the far right wouldn't tolerate that. 

I suspect, that like the rest of us, you would like your politics a la carte, but you're forced to pick the set menu that best fits your wants/needs.  However, don't be fooled (or at least don't let it seem that you have been fooled) into thinking that the set menu you have chosen is perfect for you... it's politics.... it won't be!

I know you know that - you're obviously smart and politically astute.  (Even if I disagree with a vast majority of your politics, I'm not the sort that thinks you're thick to think it!)  By subscribing wholeheartedly to one ideology and seemingly believing that it would cure all the country/world's ills, you (to me at least) rather weaken your arguements.  The burning suggestions don't help either.  How you argue your point is up to you Ward-Minter, I'm just expressing that I'm beginning to understand why we've fallen out in the past. 

[Dom Tuk]

Coming back to the people of the Uk living far beyond their means, it has to be noted that while the statement is correct it is something that GB likes as it fits his modus operandi perfectly. He wants us to spend on the high street, thats how the economy will grow and he will be labelled a good chancellor. To aid this spending he has managed to keep interest rates low, so that mortgage payments are lower and people have money to spend. Credit card companieswho issue cards to vulnerable people have been allowed to get away with highway robberey and he has done nothing about it as it helps his cause.He has paid lip service to those who like to save. He changed the TESSA system and replaced it with a confusing ISA. Interest rates are low so might as well keep your money under a mattress. All talk of means testing means people with money to spare are encouraged to spend it.

Also dont forget that GB was gifted with about 50 billion pounds from the mobile phone licences. That gave him an excellent start. If only we had not wasted it on the war, focus groups and the like

[Ward-Minter]

january bug I take umbrage at the fact you think I an "far-right". I don't think my politics adhere to the BNP or NF.

I do believe in some of BNP's policies but equally do have some rather left wing views. For example I strongly believe we should stop all immigration from "unstable and politically sensitive countries". Period. Further get rid of asylum. Period. Alas immigration from countries that adhere to our "way of life" and preferably have at least some cultural significance to the UK I do not oppose. I do not believe I am racist. If there is a word called culturalist then that is what i am.

On the left side (although it may be a contradiction of "culture") I am strongly opposed to fox-hunting. I also am a huge advocate of Gurkha rights and have actively tried to ease their path into the UK military benefit system.

I would NEVER be prejudice to any other colour or religion UNLESS they actively try to ruin or change the way of life generations of my family and myself  have fought for. Sadly with homegrown terrorists and the evil Allah spreading vile anti-west messages I have issues. I think the BNP's policy of wanting to "arm" every household is a tad too far but I can assure you I would take arms against any threat to MY country.

Another rant, yes, but I really can't express my view in just a few words. Just one thing though. Tell me how do the do-gooding commie brigade love Islamic immigrants on one of their marches then shout about womens and gay rights at another march. Do they not realise women are third class citizens in these cultures (behind men and camels) and gays have had their a55es sewn up in Iraq etc??????  Strange contradictions.

[january_bug]

Ward-Minter - I didn't mean that you were so far right.  But you strongly advocated a right wing government.  You've got to admit that your most recent post is far milder than the one you posted at 17:56 yesterday. 

Additionally - I'm neither a communist, nor an active lover (in any sense!) of Islamic immigrants.  I therefore see no reason why I should answer your absurd question, if it was in fact addressed to me in the first place. 

Before I get accused of changing my mind, my views on Muslims/Islam are clear: not every Muslim is an extremist.  I have a HUGE problem with extremists and those who are actively anti-West.  The rest... well live and let live I say. 

[january_bug]

PS - I didn't mean to offend you with assumption about your political preferences. 

Believe it or not, I don't appreciate it when people start calling me a "Commie" or a "Loony Liberal" just for showing the odd bit of happiness or tolerance every now and then. 

So I guess we're all getting labelled, often wrongly. 

[bloodycheap]

Ward-Minter...............You really believe I would support the bloody French or even worse the Germans in defeating England. You've got it all wrong..........but the Welsh or the Irish and that's a different matter.. lol!!