Society & Culture2 mins ago
Where Is The Best Place To Go For Unbiased Information On The Eu?
There are those who talk about scaremongering by the 'In' campaign, and by the looks of it, there's a degree of scaremongering (and lets be honest, lies) by the 'Out' campaign:
http://
So for those who have not made up their minds - where would you go?
Obviously, newspapers aren't to be trusted, and neither is the Government...so where would you go?
http://
So for those who have not made up their minds - where would you go?
Obviously, newspapers aren't to be trusted, and neither is the Government...so where would you go?
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@agchristie
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Is there no computer software around where it could be fed all the relevant permutations and then logically churn out the answer?
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As I keep saying: Accountants don't handle intangibles well (e.g. the mental wellbeing of residents of a steel town or its local economy when they're laid off). All the computer could do is crunch the numbers.
Maybe that's all you meant?
Compute the value of sovereignty? Pfft!
//
Is there no computer software around where it could be fed all the relevant permutations and then logically churn out the answer?
//
As I keep saying: Accountants don't handle intangibles well (e.g. the mental wellbeing of residents of a steel town or its local economy when they're laid off). All the computer could do is crunch the numbers.
Maybe that's all you meant?
Compute the value of sovereignty? Pfft!
The discussion/argument is, for some, semi-religious in character, a matter of good versus evil. It is worth remembering that leaving the EU is not going to ensure the UK will be well run nor will it ensure the UK ever again will be great. Equally, staying in is not going to spell an unmitigated disaster with life in the UK becoming a form of bondage at the hands of filthy/evil foreigners. Both scenarios are the scare tactic element you describe and neither is at all likely to come about, whichever way the referendum goes (67% "In" in the last referendum in 1975). As when deciding whether to believe in a religious tenet, which EU related proposition you place credence in is likely to depend on what you see as being convincing. There is no easy source of an unshakable truth guiding you toward a choice on how to vote. You have to put up with being bombarded by "evangelists" - unless you have your own views on a broad direction for the UK and Europe, how closely they should be linked if at all.
“It is worth remembering that leaving the EU is not going to ensure the UK will be well run nor will it ensure the UK ever again will be great.”
No it certainly is no guarantee. However, if it is badly run or fails to be great again it will the fault of politicians whom the UK electorate chooses, not some unelected apparatchiks whom do not have the best interests of the UK uppermost.
It is unfortunate that both sides base their case on the fear of what will happen if we remain/leave but there is no need to get too bogged down in the facts. You’ll never find an unbiased source anyway. All you need to do is ask yourself this:
“Do you want to live in a country called the UK and have some say (whatever the faults with the political and electoral systems) in decisions that are made, or do you want to live in a country called the EU and have absolutely no say whatsoever and be subject to decisions taken with no regard for the UK’s best interests?”
Vote “Remain” and within a very short space of time you will get the latter. That's not a threat designed to engender fear - it is a stone cold certainty.
No it certainly is no guarantee. However, if it is badly run or fails to be great again it will the fault of politicians whom the UK electorate chooses, not some unelected apparatchiks whom do not have the best interests of the UK uppermost.
It is unfortunate that both sides base their case on the fear of what will happen if we remain/leave but there is no need to get too bogged down in the facts. You’ll never find an unbiased source anyway. All you need to do is ask yourself this:
“Do you want to live in a country called the UK and have some say (whatever the faults with the political and electoral systems) in decisions that are made, or do you want to live in a country called the EU and have absolutely no say whatsoever and be subject to decisions taken with no regard for the UK’s best interests?”
Vote “Remain” and within a very short space of time you will get the latter. That's not a threat designed to engender fear - it is a stone cold certainty.
@Karl
Nice summation there. A fork in the road ahead and we must decide which way we want to go (with only the dimmest idea of each route's ultimate destination).
@agchristie
Chess algorithms are just more number-crunching, exploring umpteen permutations of moves, scoring them and choosing the stem move which leads to the best outcome. One-trick ponies, though.
Latest Turing-test machines might scare you, though.
Nice summation there. A fork in the road ahead and we must decide which way we want to go (with only the dimmest idea of each route's ultimate destination).
@agchristie
Chess algorithms are just more number-crunching, exploring umpteen permutations of moves, scoring them and choosing the stem move which leads to the best outcome. One-trick ponies, though.
Latest Turing-test machines might scare you, though.
Mark Reed Levin is an American lawyer, author, and the host of American syndicated radio show. He has no vested interest in what happens in Britain or Europe. I posted this quote on an earlier thread and am happy to share it if you missed it. If it doesn't remind you of EUssr it's time to not bother yourselves.
“There are also those who delusively if not enthusiastically surrender their liberty for the mastermind’s false promises of human and societal perfectibility. He hooks them with financial bribes in the form of ‘entitlements.’ And he makes incredible claims about indefectible health, safety, educational, and environmental policies, the success of which is to be measured not in the here and now but in the distant future.
For these reasons and more, some become fanatics for the cause. They take to the streets and, ironically, demand their own demise as they protest against their own self-determination and for ever more autocracy and authoritarianism. When they vote, they vote to enchain not only their fellow citizens but, unwittingly, themselves. Paradoxically, as the utopia metastasizes and the society ossifies, elections become less relevant. More and more decisions are made by the masterminds and their experts, who substitute their self-serving and dogmatic judgments — which are proclaimed righteous and compassionate — for the the individual’s self-interests and best interests.”
― Mark R. Levin
“There are also those who delusively if not enthusiastically surrender their liberty for the mastermind’s false promises of human and societal perfectibility. He hooks them with financial bribes in the form of ‘entitlements.’ And he makes incredible claims about indefectible health, safety, educational, and environmental policies, the success of which is to be measured not in the here and now but in the distant future.
For these reasons and more, some become fanatics for the cause. They take to the streets and, ironically, demand their own demise as they protest against their own self-determination and for ever more autocracy and authoritarianism. When they vote, they vote to enchain not only their fellow citizens but, unwittingly, themselves. Paradoxically, as the utopia metastasizes and the society ossifies, elections become less relevant. More and more decisions are made by the masterminds and their experts, who substitute their self-serving and dogmatic judgments — which are proclaimed righteous and compassionate — for the the individual’s self-interests and best interests.”
― Mark R. Levin
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