Has Red Ken Gone Mad?

[youngmafbog]

The EU might be the Tories Nemesis, but the Jewish issue looks like being Labours.

Has Corbyn got the balls (not pixie) to deal with this? Or does he hold a sympathy with them like many lefty supporters of Hamas?

http://news.sky.com/story/1686687/ken-must-go-over-hitler-comment-labour-mps

[naomi24]

Gromit, as far as I can tell he hasn't been lambasted for mentioning the agreement - he's been lambasted for saying that Hitler supported Zionism. He didn't.

[Old_Geezer]

Looks like it depends on how tightly you define Zionism. Is a demand for a separate homeland sufficient, or does it have to be where it is now ?

[Jackdaw33]

Zion, or Sion, is the old name for Jerusalem.

[naomi24]

//Zionism is a nationalist and political movement of Jews and Jewish culture that supports the re-establishment of a Jewish homeland in the territory defined as the historic Land of Israel//

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

The Nazis planned to get rid of the Jews by relocating them in Palestine. Zionism wasn't on their agenda.

[naomi24]

OG, yes it does have to be where it is now.

[jim360]

I think saying that Hitler was for an Israeli state "before he went mad" is rather like saying that Hitler throughout the 1930s was desperately pursuing peace "before he went mad". He had his own agenda, and it certainly wasn't peace. And I don't think he was interested in peaceful resettlement of Jews either.

[naomi24]

Whatever Hitler's agenda was, it wasn't Zionism.

[Gromit]

Naomi24,

From the wiki link you posted...

// [Haavara] an agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews
...
Hitler's support of the Haavara Agreement varied throughout the thirties. Initially, Hitler criticized the agreement, but shortly reversed his opinion, and continued to support it, in the face of opposition, through 1939. //

So it is true that Hitler supported zionism when it suited him.

The statement that Hilter suddenly went mad is also dubious.

[Jackdaw33]

In 1294 Edward I expelled all Jews from England and they were not allowed to return until the time of Oliver Cromwell, that well-known lefty.

[naomi24]

Gromit, no Hitler didn't support Zionism. It suited the Nazis to work together with the Zionists on a plan to transport the Jews to Palestine. The Nazis would never have been instrumental in founding the state of Israel. They just wanted the Jews out of Germany and Palestine (the sole area of the world that was of interest to the Jews) was an incentive for them to accept the terms of the agreement and go.

[andy-hughes]

I think you have the gist of it there Naomi.

I think Livingstone was being provocative with his reference to Zionism, and he further defence on Radio Four today that it is historical fact, does not stand up to scrutiny.

I do think though, that everyone should be allowed to speak in haste, and apologise at leisure, we are all human, and mistakes can and do get made.

[naomi24]

Oops! He's been suspected. That's two in two days. Labour's certainly having its problems.

http://news.sky.com/

[naomi24]

Haaa! Not suspected - suspended! Blinking predictive text! How funny! :o)

[ToraToraTora]

Not gone mad YMB, he started off raving. He's a traditional Labour man, anti Semitic and anti British in no particular order.

[MargoTester]

Naomi - posted by Mickey at 13.58

[Svejk]

I had a feeling he might 'go' after today's DP performance. His defenders must consider the Labour Party to be in the wrong.

[naomi24]

MargoTester, thanks. I didn't click on his link so wasn't aware.

[bazwillrun]

an odious vile pile of organic material if ever there was....hes another friend of the terrorists, just like jezza...

[Khandro]

For the record: "The British mandate over Palestine officially terminated at midnight, May 14, 1948. Earlier in the day, at 4:00 p.m., David Ben-Gurion proclaimed the creation of the State of Israel and became its first prime minister. Longtime advocate of Zionism in Britain Chaim Weizmann (1874-1952) became Israel's first president. On May 15, the United States recognized the State of Israel and the Soviet Union soon followed suit."