Hypothetical Question: If We Had Never Joined Europe …..

[naomi24]

…. and were invited to join now, would you vote ‘Yes’ or ‘No’?

[Svejk]

This business of Norway and Switzerland paying into the EU, etc. Then making out we'd have to do the same is a bit of a fallacy, imo.
In both countries, the political classes and ptb are and have been very pro-EU but haven't been able to persuade the rest of the country in referendums. Ergo, they couldn't join but opted for EU light. (one might say, in spite of their countrymen)

[marval]

Definitely no.

[jim360]

"making out we'd have to do the same [as Norway] is a bit of a fallacy, imo."

What certainly is true is that the deals between the EU and Norway, etc, form about the only precedent we can draw on. I don't think it's unreasonable to draw attention to them on that basis alone. Like I said, I don't expect our deal would *have* to be the same -- but it would presumably be similar, not least because we are already in the EU at the moment. Given that, I expect we'd at least try to maintain some of the existing arrangements; dismantling every part of our current relationship with the EU in its entirety is probably too difficult, or at least more trouble that it's worth, and anyway still wouldn't make us free from having to care about how the EU works.

[Togo]

//The situation would be roughly equivalent to a couple divorcing but still living in the same house. //

Yes jim with the North Sea, English Channel and the Bay of Biscay between the two portions.

[EDDIE51]

If we were still outside the EU there would be constant pressure and argument to saying why we would be better off 'IN'. Rather like the situation in the present 'candidate states' where the entire news and government propaganda is aimed at telling them why they would be better off inside the EU.
I think we would be begging to be let in, if we were in that situation.
The main argument would be freedom of movement and greater opportunity for work and travel. Yes ! exactly the same reasons that we now get for 'leave' but from the opposite perspective.

[Togo]

//The main argument would be freedom of movement and greater opportunity for work and travel.//

Very nice sentence Eddie but the reality is, that the last two words should be criminality and smuggling.

[EDDIE51]

Togo ^^ Are you seriously suggesting that the majority of a non EU UK population would be looking to join the EU to so as to have 'greater opportunity for criminality and smuggling''?

[Togo]

I really don't care about the rest of the EUSSR Eddie, just the ones who seem to have gravitated to the UK. I would also thank you not to twist what I post into your own convoluted and warped introspective interpretation.

[EDDIE51]

No 'twist'involved, I just put what you said.
My post was that greater opportunity for ''work and travel'' would be main reasons for the UK population wanting to join the EU. It was you who wanted to substitute ''criminality and smuggling.''

[Togo]

// just the ones who seem to have gravitated to the UK//

Major clue.

[naomi24]

Mikey, //Yes I would vote to join//

Me: //Why?//

Mikey: //None of your business Naomi !//

A convincingly impassioned argument if ever I saw one. :o)

[Togo]

Blind dogmatism Naomi.^^

[naomi24]

.. probably why he doesn't know 'why?'. ;o)

[EDDIE51]

Togo, my post was in conjunction with the theoretical question as to what would be the main argument for joining the EU to a UK that had never been in it.
You say it would be greater opportunity for ''criminality and smuggling'' while my suggestion was that it would be greater opportunity for ''work and travel''.
I was talking about an EU of which the UK had never been part !

[viv41]

Looks like he no longer wants a pax naomi !!

[naomi24]

:o)

[DSJ]

No.

[Jackdaw33]

When the idea of a referendum was proposed in 1972 it was arrogantly dismissed by Heath on the grounds that MPs are elected to take decisions on behalf of the people. One could argue on that basis that this referendum is unnecessary as, if they had the will, they could take us out regardless. The whole point of this referendum is to tell parliament that many of us disagree with their decisions.