Left 'outers'

[Ric.ror]

Who on the left is voting out?

[jourdain2]

Talbot - it reaches -19C in Winter where I lived in the Vienne in France and oil was dearer than in the UK. Don't forget that in Summer we also had to run fans (electricity) to help to live with up to 40C heat! Some expats really need that heating allowance and I was one of them!

[jourdain2]

Oops, think I had wrong section, sorry.

[-Talbot-]

Those are sp's words not mine.

I can't understand how he thinks the British person on benefits should be ashamed ... unless he also thinks that foreigners receiving foreign aid should also be ashamed (despite wanting to double it)

[Quizproquo]

With respect Jourdain your pension doesn't give much back to the British economy does it?
when pensions were introduced it was expected that the money paid out would feed back into the economy, not to pay for people to live in places where the climate is not suitable for them.
I have no problem with you receiving your pension, kind of, but I do have a bit of an issue with you receiving additional benefits based on conditions in Britain, not on conditions where you have chosen to live

[237SJ]

I wouldn`t say that I am Left but I wouldn`t say I am Right either. I am somewhere in between(leaning more to the Right) I agree with SP - if we come out of the EU we are going to be scuppered as far as business is concerned. I think that most people on AB are retired and they don`t have to worry too much about what is going to happen in the future. I would probably feel the same if I were an oldie who was retired but I am not. I work for global company and we are very tied up with European rules. I can`t begin to think how we would disentangel ourselves from Europe if push comes to shove. I think it would be to our detriment.

[jourdain2]

I'm struggling with that one Quizproqo. As it happens I am back in UK, but I can't see that I should have been deprived of a benefit which I paid towards should not be given, no matter where I live.

My pension, when in France, may not have given much back to the British Economy - but I wasn't costing Britain anything either (and I was paying tax in Britain, as do most ex-pats; think of that). Now I am back home my medical care is free and I could claim all sorts of things if I chose.

If all ex-pats came back to UK the NHS would collapse. Beds would be filled etc... Think about it.

[Quizproquo]

If I think about it like that Jourdain, then if all British ex-pats came back for the free health care after not paying in for 20-30 years, even by buying groceries here, what else would you expect?

[jourdain2]

Quiz etc. Where I lived, there was a thriving importation of groceries from UK, check out 'Mouse to House'. Ex-pats were and are, contributing to the British economy, I promise. There is this idea surrounding 'ex-pat'. :)

[Bigbad]

SP.

Thank you for your answer. An answer based on a scenario which you would like to see happen.

It hasn’t happened, so the situation remains as per my question, with migrants receiving benefits now and in the foreseeable future.
I was hoping for an answer based on this, rather than your Utopian idea!

[EDDIE51]

jourdain 2 You say the NHS would collapse if all the ex pats came back to the UK, yet you want the UK out of the EU.
If we leave a sizable % of the 1.5 to 2 million UK citizens living in the EU either full or part time will come back permanently, so how will that affect the NHS?

[EDDIE51]

I am keeping a watch on the 'Brexit Odds' and the 'leave' odds are constantly getting longer, while the 'remain' odds are shortening. Currently 1/4 'remain' against 11/4 'leave', with the big bookies.
http://www.oddschecker.com/politics/british-politics/eu-referendum/referendum-on-eu-membership-result
I trust the bookies far more to get it right than any opinion poll !

[-Talbot-]

EDDIE why on earth would you bet on stay @ 1/4 when odds of 2/5 are available?

Either you don't understand odds or you are spinning. Which one is it?

[sp1814]

-Talbot-

Yes, I think there's a difference between foreign aid and home benefits.

The difference is that someone who simply doesn't want to work is a world away from someone who does, but can't because they are dying.

[sp1814]

And the winter fuel allowance for ex-pats living in Florida doesn't make sense.

[-Talbot-]

sp1814
-Talbot-

Yes, I think there's a difference between foreign aid and home benefits.

The difference is that someone who simply doesn't want to work is a world away from someone who does, but can't because they are dying.



Absolute tosh, sp.

So if a Briton is claiming benefits it is because they don't want to work?
Seriously?

[Svejk]

If we adopt sp's policies, poor people in Britain will be dying.
Maybe he'd let them have 'foreign' aid then.

[sp1814]

Let's roll the clock back to the 70s before the winter fuel allowance and the expansion of child tax credits and housing benefits. I don't recall the poor dying.

Bigbad - my point is that we would lock down wastage in the benefits system. That comes first. That's not a utopian ideal. It's a common sense approach that many countries around the world have adopted.

Reduce the benefits bill and use that money for tax breaks for small and medium sized businesses. Their success I'll reinvigorate the jobs market, making it easier for those on benefits to come off benefits.

It's no good just keeping the mad status quo we have right now, because we have generations of families who have never worked.

It's utterly mental.

[sp1814]

-Talbot-

There are people on benefits who want to work but can't.

There are people on benefits who don't want to work.

There are too many of the latter.

Simple as that.

Empower the former. Punish the latter.

[sp1814]

Sorry - going to have to leave this one for a while because (unironically)...I gotta concentrate on work...otherwise I might end up in the former camp as described above,

[Bigbad]

SP @ 9.38

I understand what you are saying as a future option, but my point is that you say you are leaning towards “stay” and I wanted to know how you could equate your “get rid of all benefits” stance with the paying of benefits to migrants that are able to access the UK through Europe, which can only get worse if we stay.

I do realise that this isn’t the only thing to consider when deciding how to vote, but surely you can’t vote on something you would like to see happen, especially as it’s not a proposal put forward by any politician.