Sad But True.......

[ToraToraTora]

http://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/3771/5634/original.jpg?w=600&h
I hope svejk doesn't mind me using this but I think it illustrates what many of us feel.

[Gromit]

TTT,

This is not a vote to JOIN Europe. We did that 43 years ago.

A more fitting caption might be...
" Why are we DYING for Peace when we could be VOTING for Peace? "

[Bobsy]

Yes we should listen to the Turk Boris and the foreign Farage innit !!

[andy-hughes]

Absolutely - the message is essentially incorrect.

We are already under the improper influence of Germany and other European states - the question is only if we should remain so.

[Gromit]

Heath gave away our sovereignty 43 years ago.

If you are going to put propaganda words into the fallen, at least do the maths.

[Baldric]

Foreign Farage?
Nigel Paul Farage is a British politician.
Born: April 3, 1964 (age 52), Downe, London, UK.

Turk Boris?
Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson (Born June 19, 1964 (age 51), Manhattan, New York, U.S.) is an English politician, popular historian, and journalist

[naomi24]

Bearing in mind the message is supposed to be a portent of the future from 100 years ago, it's absolutely accurate. That's what we're doing. Mrs Merkel reigns supreme!!

[Gromit]

It is 100% inaccurate.

" 100 years from now our decendants are going to hand Britain over to the Germans without lifting a finger "

We were handed over in 1973 without the decendants having a vote.

[Svejk]

43 years ago we joined a common market.
Vote to remain now for total capitulation, total loss of sovereignty.
The dying EU project will be making more and more demands on you/us when given the green light.

[naomi24]

Gromit, in 1975 the electorate voted on whether to remain in the Common Market. The outcome was 'Yes'. Now, 100 years on from 1916 the chances are that in this referendum they'll vote 'yes' again. The cartoon is chillingly accurate.

[Baldric]

Nit Picking about the number of years does not alter the fact that what is being said is 100% true.

[naomi24]

Baldric, but if the vote is to remain it does mean we'll have done it - twice!

[andy-hughes]

Baldric - //Nit Picking about the number of years does not alter the fact that what is being said is 100% true. //

It's not nit-picking - the hundred year gap is an essential plank of the message, and the fact that we are not 'handing over' anything makes the message incorrect.

The decision is not whether or not to join the EU, it is whether or not to stay - any 'handing over' was done a long time ago.

[ToraToraTora]

all right, fair enough so gromit and the ABC are you voting to free us? Nope did not think so.

[Old_Geezer]

We, the people, have not handed anything over at all.

We voted not to extract ourselves from a trading block years ago. We are voting whether to extract ourselves from a controlling group soon.

Since we had no control over the actions of our politicians (given we don't have a true democracy but one that is laughingly called a representative one) this time is the first time we could have officially confirmed our desire.

I don't see that that is any significant difference to a situation where we might be voting to join rather than voting to extract ourselves. It's our first say on the EU, the two situations join or leave, are comparable. If it is to remain then at that point we would have sacrificed our sovereignty (as opposed to some politician giving it away unbidden). For all practical purposes, as a chance of making our voice heard, join/not join and confirm being joined/stop being joined may be considered synonymous.

[ToraToraTora]

1975 was trading agreements and general cooperation. The scope has crept considerably since then. The ABC and general EU collaborators love to mention 1973/5 etc as if it is in anyway relevant or comparable to what we face today. These enemies of the state will be delighted when Britain is abolished.

[Gromit]

Problem is, virtually everything the Leave campaigners say is not true. They have been spouting nonsense about bent bananas and fireman's poles for decades, but now it is time for a grown up debate, they just continue with the myths.

The Stay campaigners, with their fear tactics are no better. It has been a terrible debate which left truth and honesty behind months ago. I genuinely dislike both sides.

[ToraToraTora]

and of course the remainiacs are 100% accurate!

[andy-hughes]

It's a shame that the entire campaign has descended into piffle and propaganda from both sides.

The populace both are aiming to secure find politics boring enough, without clear messages of menace and threats to scare them off listening any further.

The electorate can be stupid, but woe betide the side that makes it clear that they think it out loud.

[Gromit]

I said they are 'no better'.

The Fear campaign is mostly not accurate also.

Which is why I said both sides are terrible.

[Old_Geezer]

Same every referendum.
Which is why you need past experience to even begin to sort out the hype from the facts, and to extrapolate the likely outcome of each.