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If Theresa May Wants To Became Our Next Prime Minister, Should She Now Guarantee The Status Of Eu Citizens Living In The Uk After Brexit?
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Precisely, Jackdaw. Everyone wants useful EU citizens to continue living here.
The moment we say that, however, our bargaining power is reduced considerably., I did begin by thinking that she should guarantee status for legal EU citizens, ----then I worked out the bargaining politics. Unhappily, that means a short period of uncertainty for some people, but I am sure they are not daft enough not to understand the stance. We are very happy to have the right number of the right people here. We've enough 'wrong uns' of our own!
The moment we say that, however, our bargaining power is reduced considerably., I did begin by thinking that she should guarantee status for legal EU citizens, ----then I worked out the bargaining politics. Unhappily, that means a short period of uncertainty for some people, but I am sure they are not daft enough not to understand the stance. We are very happy to have the right number of the right people here. We've enough 'wrong uns' of our own!
^^ Boris may be many things but he is NOT stupid!
He knows that who ever is the next Tory leader and PM will be damned no matter what sort of 'exit' they do or do not negotiate. It will be impossible to please more than 50% of the party at best. He is waiting until it happens so he can step in to 'save the Tories'.
I would not be surprised to learn that the 'Backstab' by Grove was all a cunning plot to give Boris a believable reason to drop out, and return once the 'poison chalice' has been safely by-passed.
He knows that who ever is the next Tory leader and PM will be damned no matter what sort of 'exit' they do or do not negotiate. It will be impossible to please more than 50% of the party at best. He is waiting until it happens so he can step in to 'save the Tories'.
I would not be surprised to learn that the 'Backstab' by Grove was all a cunning plot to give Boris a believable reason to drop out, and return once the 'poison chalice' has been safely by-passed.
> But what is the alternative?
All of the other candidates seem to think there is an alternative.
One alternative would be to use a different bargaining chip. Brexiters told us during the campaign that we would be in an incredibly strong position, with the whip hand for example because of the balance of trade difference between Britain and Europe. We don't need to be so simplistic as to trade our Spanish "expats" for their Polish "migrants".
Beyond that, the very fact we would imply we would forcibly deport people sets a bad tone for negotiations and, after that, ongoing relations with Europe. It's a dumb initial position to set. Better to lead ourselves into bargaining on high moral ground. Then if they try to do the dirty on our expats (I don't think they would, but if they did), they look bad to the rest of the world and we can start to use other levers e.g. the balance of trade.
All of the other candidates seem to think there is an alternative.
One alternative would be to use a different bargaining chip. Brexiters told us during the campaign that we would be in an incredibly strong position, with the whip hand for example because of the balance of trade difference between Britain and Europe. We don't need to be so simplistic as to trade our Spanish "expats" for their Polish "migrants".
Beyond that, the very fact we would imply we would forcibly deport people sets a bad tone for negotiations and, after that, ongoing relations with Europe. It's a dumb initial position to set. Better to lead ourselves into bargaining on high moral ground. Then if they try to do the dirty on our expats (I don't think they would, but if they did), they look bad to the rest of the world and we can start to use other levers e.g. the balance of trade.
How are we to decide who is a 'wrong'un' ? and who is OK ? By what criteria will we judge them? Will we be happy for our own overseas residents to be judged by ever they have chosen to live?
When the referendum was being debated the 'Leave' side were at pains to point out that those who were currently resident in other EU states were not an issue and would have the right to remain where they were. Now just 3 weeks later it seems it is very much an issue!
When the referendum was being debated the 'Leave' side were at pains to point out that those who were currently resident in other EU states were not an issue and would have the right to remain where they were. Now just 3 weeks later it seems it is very much an issue!
Ellipsis, all of this is blind panic bordering on hysteria. Personally, I don’t think we should be bargaining at all. We should simply say we are out. People who have made their lives here and who contribute in a positive way to society may stay – just as foreigners who made their lives here and contributed to society before the EU existed have stayed.
Eddie, ‘wrong’ uns are those who are either not self-sufficient or are law-breakers. Those we can do without – wherever they come from - and I've no doubt that Europe can do without such people too.
Eddie, ‘wrong’ uns are those who are either not self-sufficient or are law-breakers. Those we can do without – wherever they come from - and I've no doubt that Europe can do without such people too.
Ellipsis, I don't think she's doing anything with people's lives; their position remains exactly as it was last month or last year, nothing's changed. They may very well feel more uncertain about the future, but that's because of the vote, not because of anything May's done. I think she's right to wait.
naomi, 'law breakers' are a wide ranging bunch. From someone who once drove at 1 mph over the speed limit or stayed 10 seconds over a parking time to a mass murderer. Once we start saying things like 'law breakers' must go we have to define at what level of law breaking we draw the line.
Then what about those who are self sufficient but later become ill ,injured or disabled, are we to deport them once they become unable to support themselves? We have to be very careful where we go here or we are in danger of starting down a slippery slope that ends where Germany was in 1940!!
Then what about those who are self sufficient but later become ill ,injured or disabled, are we to deport them once they become unable to support themselves? We have to be very careful where we go here or we are in danger of starting down a slippery slope that ends where Germany was in 1940!!
Jno, I think if you were Polish, living here, in a job, married, with a mortgage ... you may feel differently about whether she was playing with your life. What are you supposed to think about her position?
Bear in mind this was NOT part of the vote. Nobody on the Brexit side was arguing for this and, to be fair to them, they still aren't. Only May.
Bear in mind this was NOT part of the vote. Nobody on the Brexit side was arguing for this and, to be fair to them, they still aren't. Only May.
yes, I'd feel uneasy; I'm an immigrant myself. And I know it wasn't part of the vote: it was just one of many issues nobody bothered to discuss, not least becasue it turned out the Brexit camp didn't have a clue how to achieve their stated aim.
None the less, it's an issue now, and it will remain one until a deal is sorted out with the EU. And May - or whoever - has to try to make the best of it, as do immigrants. I think May's making the best of a bad job, and is doing so honestly rather than promising the earth as some of her rivals did. Because there are Britons living in the EU too (who may not even have had a vote), it's a bilateral issue and will have to be sorted out as such.
None the less, it's an issue now, and it will remain one until a deal is sorted out with the EU. And May - or whoever - has to try to make the best of it, as do immigrants. I think May's making the best of a bad job, and is doing so honestly rather than promising the earth as some of her rivals did. Because there are Britons living in the EU too (who may not even have had a vote), it's a bilateral issue and will have to be sorted out as such.
I posted this on the wrong thread, so reposting.
//Ellipsis, // that's simply not the case, otherwise every candidate would be saying the same thing - but it's only Theresa May.//
Ignoring the fact that she is not the Prime Minister, in effect all she is saying is “wait to see how the land lies”. That’s wise. Each and every one of the member states has citizens in every other country but, as far as I’m aware none has, as yet, made the firm commitment you’re expecting this country to make just a couple of weeks after the vote. All will have their citizens’ interests at heart and all will look after its own best interests in every respect, as we must do. Agreement will be reached. It’s early days. Give it time.
Eddie, //starting down a slippery slope that ends where Germany was in 1940!!//
That is hysteria! All we’re hearing from the ‘Remainers’ is dour negativity devoid of every ounce of rational thinking. You all seem to be running around like headless chickens, latching on to any scare story that comes your way! Get a grip! The world is not ending. Life will go on – and this country will thrive. Try thinking positive – just for a change! //
//Ellipsis, // that's simply not the case, otherwise every candidate would be saying the same thing - but it's only Theresa May.//
Ignoring the fact that she is not the Prime Minister, in effect all she is saying is “wait to see how the land lies”. That’s wise. Each and every one of the member states has citizens in every other country but, as far as I’m aware none has, as yet, made the firm commitment you’re expecting this country to make just a couple of weeks after the vote. All will have their citizens’ interests at heart and all will look after its own best interests in every respect, as we must do. Agreement will be reached. It’s early days. Give it time.
Eddie, //starting down a slippery slope that ends where Germany was in 1940!!//
That is hysteria! All we’re hearing from the ‘Remainers’ is dour negativity devoid of every ounce of rational thinking. You all seem to be running around like headless chickens, latching on to any scare story that comes your way! Get a grip! The world is not ending. Life will go on – and this country will thrive. Try thinking positive – just for a change! //
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