Grammar Schools

[mikey4444]

It would seem that Mrs May is poised to take Britain back to the 1950's here.

This man is the Chief Inspector of Schools, so he should know what he is talking about ::::

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/video_and_audio/headlines/37316202

[cassa333]

If you don't like Grammar Schools becuase they are devisive then surely you should be campaigning to get rid of ALL other schools except state schools? No private schools, no schools that are in any way better than another.

Let's get rid of choice and force everyone into state approved mire.

The world was going to end after a Bretix vote and look, we are still here and growing. The country will be better served by choice NOT less.

[andy-hughes]

casca333 - //Let's get rid of choice and force everyone into state approved mire. //

The argument against selection is that everyone is dragged down to the lowest level.

Would it not be better for everyone if education was resourced, funded and supported in such away that everyone had an opportunity to be raised up to the highest level?

Children are individuals, and attainment is always a fluid concept, but that does not mean that selection is a good way forward as a blanket solution, I think this issues are more complex and deep-rooted than that.

[ToraToraTora]

don't talk rot, all this lefty cobblers about selection etc misses the point. The schools are full of disruptive yobbos killing education but that's the left way isn't it, lowest common denominator for the masses and educate your own kids privately. Here's the news guys, some kids are brighter than others and life is not fair, end of.

[THEMOTLEY1]

Quote 'Selection by Postcode and House Prices' absolute load of old pony!
I qualified for my place at a Grammer School by passing my 11 Plus and went on to receive a great education that set me up for the Career I have today.

[mikey4444]

Cassa....It is only just over a year since the last Election, and I don't recall this plan to bring back Grammar Schools being in the Tory Part manifesto. I don't really wonder why, as most Tories are against the it.

If you listen to the Chief Inspector, he is saying that this will mean bringing back selection at age 10, and the division of school into Secondary Modern and Grammar schools.

Look at the figures for entry into colleges and universities and compare 1956 to 2016.

I want all schools to get good teachers and good facilities, not just the ones that exist in posh areas. The case being made by the Tories, although not very convincingly, that this new move will increase social mobility. What rot.

[jim360]

We had a full debate about grammar schools a few weeks back. I don't think much has changed since then, really. Grammar Schools are fine, but only as part of a more complete education system so that not going to a grammar school doesn't also condemn you to lower education standards for the rest of your life. Unfortunately, this never happens.

[ToraToraTora]

rubbish mikey, you want to destroy any chance that bright poor children have out of some sort of flawed lefty ideology.

[pixie374]

It's not "bringing back", we still have them now. It's vocational schools that need to improve, not the ones that are doing their job.

[cassa333]

State education will always be the lowest common denominator. If it were any other way you would not have any other schools or educational establishments.

Life is not fare and no amount of posturing will change that. By forcing them all into bog standard education you drag down the nations capability.

[mikey4444]

Andy is right....comprehensives were meant to ensure that all pupils get the same opportunities, not just the ones coming from wealthy homes, that can afford either to move to a wealthy area, and/or pay for extra, expensive tutoring.

And the concept that all non-Grammar schools are full of " disruptive yobbos" is just plain wrong, and insulting to millions of ordinary kids in England.

Can I remind everybody that about 80% of pupils went to Secondary Modern Schools years ago !

Here in Wales, we don't have Grammar schools, or "Academy" schools either, and we seem to manage perfectly well without them. Scotland seems to manage without Grammar schools as well.

[andy-hughes]

TTT - //The schools are full of disruptive yobbos killing education but that's the left way isn't it, lowest common denominator for the masses and educate your own kids privately. Here's the news guys, some kids are brighter than others and life is not fair, end of. //

Disruption in school is not going to be solved by selection!

Disruption is caused because have a third generation of parents with little or no parenting skills.

As in the 'uniform' issue - parents are far too keen to side with their children against authority restrictions, which sends the common message being given to children and young people - you don't have to obey the rules if you don't feel like it.

The solution is not to go down the previous path of segregating children at eleven into the 'worth educating, and 'the rest' -it is not the way for a modern society to educate its future citizens.

[pixie374]

Grammar schools are not for wealthy people... those are private schools. How can a comprehensive properly cater for everybody?

[mikey4444]

TTT.....( 10:37 )......Comprehensive Schools have been sending their bright kids to college and universities for 40 years now, otherwise how do you account for the huge rise in kids able to go to College these days ?

[vulcan42]

mikey, it only requires 1 disruptive child in each class to have a school in chaos.

[pixie374]

Because it's the law, mikey. They have to stay in education until they are 18 now.

[mikey4444]

pixie374...Comps. have been doing precisely that for over 40 years, as I said above. How else do you account for the rise in college education ?

[mikey4444]

Pixie... that is only a recent change in the law, but the rise of college attendance has been apparent for many years.

[pixie374]

I just have... so have secondary schools. The main problem is seeing those children who go there as "failures" instead of different people with different skills. Mine went to secondary school and all on to college. I went to a grammar school and then work.

[Prudie]

I'm undoubtedly being naive but I don't follow how bringing back grammar schools across country will only benefit rich children. will the selection method be different?? As above I went to Grammar because I passed my 11+, it had absolutely nothing to do with household income, lots of my classmates were from council estates and rural backwoods. Furthermore the late developers from the sec moderns joined us in 6th form for A levels.