ChatterBank5 mins ago
Nice One Tezza....
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Stop the whining SGB from trying to derail the will of the people. The PM already has the cleanest mandate possible so she is right to just get on with it.
Stop the whining SGB from trying to derail the will of the people. The PM already has the cleanest mandate possible so she is right to just get on with it.
Answers
The penny with politicians never really drops because they are too busy doing everything they can to feather their own nests! Reality is that the huge splits in the leanings of the country hasn't been this stark certainly in my 50 years. 25 years of the politics of mediocrity we'are saddled with groups who have no direction. The country gave direction, May has...
14:28 Mon 10th Oct 2016
The penny with politicians never really drops because they are too busy doing everything they can to feather their own nests!
Reality is that the huge splits in the leanings of the country hasn't been this stark certainly in my 50 years. 25 years of the politics of mediocrity we'are saddled with groups who have no direction. The country gave direction, May has to follow or carry the wrath of the nation to the next general election.
On the other side of the equation you have that stupid woman in Holyrood playing with her teddies on the floor because she throws them out the pram daily because she can't get her own way, well Nippy Sweetie the country gave you direction in September 2014 - Do as May is doing; Follow it!
Reality is that the huge splits in the leanings of the country hasn't been this stark certainly in my 50 years. 25 years of the politics of mediocrity we'are saddled with groups who have no direction. The country gave direction, May has to follow or carry the wrath of the nation to the next general election.
On the other side of the equation you have that stupid woman in Holyrood playing with her teddies on the floor because she throws them out the pram daily because she can't get her own way, well Nippy Sweetie the country gave you direction in September 2014 - Do as May is doing; Follow it!
What "the people" voted for on June 23 was to leave the EU.
There is rather more to it the reality of "Brexit". There are bound to be terms relating to Brexit which at the very least need to be open to approval by parliament. Strictly, another referendum. although I think it will be a VERY long time before any PM risks THAT again :-)
What the Prime Minister has done is to take the referendum as the excuse for a whole raft of stated aims that are a complete break from the manifesto of 2015. Of course the UKIP-speak of her speech (and that of Amber Rudd) last week was a load of nonsense (Rudd's "register of foreign workers" has already been abandoned) and the tax and spend proposals are slowing stirring the free-marketeers into revolt, but because of the abject state of the opposition at the moment, a lot is being got away with. When Jeremy Corbyn criticises the xenophobia of some of this he is not listened to because it just sounds like the usual suspect making the usual call.
Bit on this he happens to be right.
The point of all this is that Mrs May's pronouncements may sound great, and decisive to some, but it is all going to unravel. And I suspect that will include the plans not to consult parliament over a Brexit deal...
There is rather more to it the reality of "Brexit". There are bound to be terms relating to Brexit which at the very least need to be open to approval by parliament. Strictly, another referendum. although I think it will be a VERY long time before any PM risks THAT again :-)
What the Prime Minister has done is to take the referendum as the excuse for a whole raft of stated aims that are a complete break from the manifesto of 2015. Of course the UKIP-speak of her speech (and that of Amber Rudd) last week was a load of nonsense (Rudd's "register of foreign workers" has already been abandoned) and the tax and spend proposals are slowing stirring the free-marketeers into revolt, but because of the abject state of the opposition at the moment, a lot is being got away with. When Jeremy Corbyn criticises the xenophobia of some of this he is not listened to because it just sounds like the usual suspect making the usual call.
Bit on this he happens to be right.
The point of all this is that Mrs May's pronouncements may sound great, and decisive to some, but it is all going to unravel. And I suspect that will include the plans not to consult parliament over a Brexit deal...
People who voted 'Leave' know what they voted for. No control from Europe in any way whatsoever - it's called freedom and sovereignty. Fair trade deals with them and the rest of the world. Our Parliament to make our laws. We decide who comes here and on what terms - nothing against the immigrants we want, they are welcome, but we decide. Parliament exists by the will of the people and must adhere to that.
Remaniacs just don't get it, do they? We've said it clearly enough. Not racist or anything nasty, we just want to be ourselves and not some subsumed, characterless department of an inefficient, didactic, supra-power.
Looking at the leaders of this effort at subversion, Milleband, Clegg etc... They have all been roundly disowned by the majority of the country and should have the humility to crawl away into holes somewhere and lick their wounds. What cheek makes them think that they have any right to interfere here?
Remaniacs just don't get it, do they? We've said it clearly enough. Not racist or anything nasty, we just want to be ourselves and not some subsumed, characterless department of an inefficient, didactic, supra-power.
Looking at the leaders of this effort at subversion, Milleband, Clegg etc... They have all been roundly disowned by the majority of the country and should have the humility to crawl away into holes somewhere and lick their wounds. What cheek makes them think that they have any right to interfere here?
I disagree that people knew what they voted for, or at least if they did, it was not always the same thing.
It's like asking : are you happy with your current Will or would you like to write a new one?
So what is happening now is that the govt is saying: 'you asked for a new will, so we'll write it for you but we won't consult anyone at all on the contents because (boom boom) it's the er will of the people ...'
A lot of failed politicos like David Davis are now running around like kids who've unexpectedly been given a new ball, claiming all sorts of mandates in the strength of a narrow vote on June 23.
It could get worse because there's also a legal challenge to Article 50...
It's like asking : are you happy with your current Will or would you like to write a new one?
So what is happening now is that the govt is saying: 'you asked for a new will, so we'll write it for you but we won't consult anyone at all on the contents because (boom boom) it's the er will of the people ...'
A lot of failed politicos like David Davis are now running around like kids who've unexpectedly been given a new ball, claiming all sorts of mandates in the strength of a narrow vote on June 23.
It could get worse because there's also a legal challenge to Article 50...
It was always going to be the case that this (non-binding) referendum was going to provoke a clash between two forms of democracy in this country. Both are acceptable, or should be, most of the time, so why MPs should be denied a say on this particular issue is perhaps a little bizarre. OK, the referendum result deserves to be respected, but why fear that MPs will block it? It's often been said that May would go ahead with Brexit because it would mean her job otherwise. Well, that applies to MPs too presumably. How many would risk rejecting the will of the people so clearly? Was this not about restoring parliamentary sovereignty anyway? Or should we now assume that the UK operates democracy primarily by referendum?
Having said that I can understand Theresa May's decision to an extent. The will of the people as a whole was clear on June 23rd and Brexit of some form is now inevitable. What is *not* so obviously democratic is this idea that MPs should be allowed little to no say on the process until *after* it's been completed. Presumably, this would put MPs in an impossible situation of having to reject something for which there's no mechanism to put in place many replacements.
Actually, what troubles me more is that apparently I now have literally no say in the future of my country at all, unless I utterly reject everything I thought to be true when I cast my vote to stay in the EU on June 23rd. I lost. I get that. But in a democratic country the loser isn't ignored, he's listened to, and still gets a chance to shape the decision. Apparently, now, any attempt to question whether the current approach to Brexit is the correct one is an affront to democracy, or bordering on treason, or somewhere in between. It is neither. If not on the concept, which as I have said is effectively settled, then on the execution, it's utterly undemocratic to assume that the people who voted for Brexit voted for Theresa May's specific version from it -- who we should remember had to undergo a Damascene conversion to support something she was standing against.
Whatever Brexit means, I hope it works. But I don't see that I, or any other Remain voter, should have no say whatsoever in shaping it. Parliament in particular should be far more heavily involved. Unless you are scared of our democratically-elected representatives deciding on something you don't like?
Having said that I can understand Theresa May's decision to an extent. The will of the people as a whole was clear on June 23rd and Brexit of some form is now inevitable. What is *not* so obviously democratic is this idea that MPs should be allowed little to no say on the process until *after* it's been completed. Presumably, this would put MPs in an impossible situation of having to reject something for which there's no mechanism to put in place many replacements.
Actually, what troubles me more is that apparently I now have literally no say in the future of my country at all, unless I utterly reject everything I thought to be true when I cast my vote to stay in the EU on June 23rd. I lost. I get that. But in a democratic country the loser isn't ignored, he's listened to, and still gets a chance to shape the decision. Apparently, now, any attempt to question whether the current approach to Brexit is the correct one is an affront to democracy, or bordering on treason, or somewhere in between. It is neither. If not on the concept, which as I have said is effectively settled, then on the execution, it's utterly undemocratic to assume that the people who voted for Brexit voted for Theresa May's specific version from it -- who we should remember had to undergo a Damascene conversion to support something she was standing against.
Whatever Brexit means, I hope it works. But I don't see that I, or any other Remain voter, should have no say whatsoever in shaping it. Parliament in particular should be far more heavily involved. Unless you are scared of our democratically-elected representatives deciding on something you don't like?
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