Lost little girls

[oabyone]

why is this country so s*it? Can the media, newspapers, not do more to catch anyone who abducts children and why when caught do these people still have human rights. The Justice system in this country has to change. For such a small country someone out there must know something.

Sorry for being a bit real but it seems people just seem to get on with it these days.

[rja211077]

what do you propose the media does to help catch the abductor?

[oabyone]

I work for a newspaper and all the editors are interested in is selling papers ( I know they wouldn't be human if they didn't care) I think they could add a bit of pressure not only in the press but also on tv. As I say someone out there must know something. The media could also have an impact on the Government for the way the justice system is, that has to change. Its seem to easy to get away with the crime these days. if this man is caught, the courts have the chance to send out a message. I know we regard the American way a bit drastic, but is it really? How would you feel if it happened to someone you know? What would you want done with the culprit? Its time for change, who cares about a child abductors human rights? Look what has happened with the Buldger case.

[snaykz]

The reason abductors and the like have human rights is because they are humans. However evil or wrong someone may be, our society has realised that two wrongs don't necessarily make a right. As for the Bulger killers, the most impoirtant years of their lives and personal development, have been spent behind bars. To spend 8 years incarcerated at the age of 10 must surely be worse than as an adult. Yes, it was deserved and it was their own doing, but what do you hope to achieve by keeping them detained? They have already endured a severe punishment and I've no doubt that if they still posed a threat they wouldn't have been released in the first place. Also, what about a case of mistaken identity? If you were wrongly accused of a similar crime, wouldn't you be grateful that you still had your human rights?

[andy hughes]

I have the advantage of a couple more days of this case, and it appears that the perpetrators of this horrific crime have been found - and I fully sympethise with your argument, although I cannot agree with it. As has ben eloquently explained by a previous correspondent, our laws are what make us civilised, and as human a reaction as it is, we cannot return to the lynch mob mentality that has occured over suspected (and innocent) paedophiles in recent cases. As a reasoned human being, I see the wisdom of laws and human rights, as the father of three girls, the youngest of whom is a little older than the two poor mites in question, I would willingly carve the killers into one inch pieces with a rusty tin lid! It's a tough one.

[snotmonkey]

everyone is banging on about the courts, media and the police but this would have all been avoided if the parents had kept an eye on their children. now i know everyone will scream at me for saying this but we live in a f*cked up world with a load of crazy nutters. nobody leaves a house or car unlocked anymore, no-one leaves a purse or mobile phone lying around, so why let the most precious things in the world unsupervised, its asking for trouble. but getting on to another point about human rights, if a person commits a murder, rape, or sex attack their rights should be waved and their life should be taken. pure and simple. in the buldger case eight years in prison is nothing for killing a child. which leads me to another thought, if while he is incarcerated he is sexually abused by a carer (which is very likely) is he getting his what he deserves?

[snaykz]

OK snotmonkey, you are right. There are a lot of nutters in the world. However, as you put it, "if a person commits a murder, rape, or sex attack their rights should be waved and their life should be taken. pure and simple." I have to disagree. When is a case of murder or sexual assault ever simple? Human rights are there to ensure that the accused are treated fairly and humanely. Not everybody accused of a violent crime just turns round and says "OK, it's a fair cop guv." This isn't 'Murder, She Wrote'. This is real life and, as Andy Hughes has already pointed out, the "wisdom of laws and human rights" are what make us part of a civilized society and not an anarchy. Even if someone does confess, don't you find it hypocritical to be appalled at the murder of someone and then want to take revenge by murdering that person? By human rights, I'm not talking about access to a pool table and digital TV, I'm talking about the right to a lawyer and medication if necessary, for example. One more thing, where did you come up with the idea that professional carers are "very likely" to sexually abuse people in their care? The vast majority of carers in this country carry out stirling work and have never committed an unfriendly act to anybody in their care. Occasionally you may come across a hostile carer, but you find a mix of people in every walk of life. I do see some merit in your arguement that the children should not have been allowed to wander off alone, but my thoughts on this are too long to mention here; I have gone on for long enough. It just seems to me as though you are trying to see everything in black and white, whereas the reality is often much more complex. These challenges to your own viewpoint are respectfully submitted.

[snotmonkey]

this is why crime is on the increase because the criminals are treated like an endangered species. too many bleeding hearts. wait until your child is murdered or a loved one raped, it wont be justice you want it'll be revenge . let the next kid fiddler know if he does anything to a child he'll end up dead or dickless instead of giving him a 5 year stretch. rehabilitation doesnt work, hanging does.

[oabyone]

Fair enough, everthing is not in black and white. however, you put yourself in the place of one of those girls parents. How do you feel now. I have been over that side of the fence and thats right you don't want justice (well I did but the system in this country is to easy for a criminal to overcome, and the time in jail, which was 3 years for a life just does not add up in my book) you want revenge. Hatred boils inside, time does not heal. Time is only what is spent in a comfy prison. The last question I ask, what if T Blairs son, daughter or even some kind of relative was, say knifed, what would the criminal recieve then? As in the case of Jamie Buldger, those 2 boys should rot. Call me uncivilised but I hope they gey their day and the courts and politicians who were involved in that case should hang their heads in shame.

[snaykz]

Einstein is exactly right. The whole concept of justice runs by the principle that it is metered out fairly. Why do you think that high profile cases involving well known people (such as OJ Simpson or the recent spate of footballers in this country supposedly committing assaults) rely on a jury who have never heard of the person in question? Because they rely on unbiased judgement, not people who are just eager to see the maximum punishment applied to whoever is the chief suspect. The point Einstein makes is undeniable, the death penalty does not make a significant difference to the crime rate of a nation. Those people who claim they want the murderers murdered and suspects treated worse than animals may think you are championing the public cause, but you are flying in the face of thousands of years of logic, experience and common sense. I suspect that your thug mentality of 'kill, punish, make them suffer' comes ironically close to the mentality of those you are trying to repremand. And please don't give me the 'you would want revenge if it was your child' stuff. That is just being presumptious.

[rogersaurus]

u disgust me snotmonkey.bet ur 1 of those people who says they f*ckin hate politicians cos u dont understand politics.stop just trying to b controvesial and grow up u fool.

[oabyone]

I agree with your morals but when your brother has been kicked to a pulp by a group of young thugs, and then 5 of them get let off and one goes to jail for 3 years, and we had to fight for that. Your outlook on life changes. I remember hearing on the news of a murder and your heart goes out to the family but you don't know the half of it, you don't understand one bit unless it happens to you. And yes, at first I did not care if these people were caught all I wanted was my brother to live. He didn't. Then the anger comes, then I wanted justice. That didn't happen either. That was a joke. 17 year olds out foxing a fiscal, come off it. My point again, if T Blairs son, daughter, next door neighbours aunties dog got knifed, you would have the whole police force out looking for whoever done it. And no I'm not being funny. It has happend. I am a member of a group called PETAL. The stats for murders that go unpunished frightens me. However if you get charged for say assault in a murder case then that goes in the book as a solved case. Its horsesh*t. Theres no bleeting or kill all the criminals, some crimes deserved a stiffer punishment. Jail does not work if we are going on about the death penalty. Those guys who did it to my brother have started their wee gang riots again. As for snaykz, god forbid anything happening to someone you know. My frame of mind was close to yours before this happened to my family and I have changed my tune. how can you stand up and comment on a life changing experience that you know nothing about. Please. All I am stating is the way this country handles these matters has to be changed. We have to send out a message.

[snaykz]

Once again people are being presumptious. How do you know nothing similar hasn't happened to me? As you say, your frame of mind was close to mine before a specific incident happened to you. You then abandoned your morals in favour of a set of completely new ones which suited your own personal situation. Of course, no one set of morals can be seen as better or worse than another, it is all in the eye of the beholder. And everyone is entitled to change their opinion. But this is exactly why justice needs to be carried out unbiasedly. If every victim had their way, people would be being executed for stealing cars or committing insurance fraud. Having said that, I do feel for you and how you lost your brother. By what you have said, it seems astonishing that these thugs were given such a light sentence (or no sentence at all). I am not in favour of letting criminals roam the streets. In fact I believe that sentences should be harsher in general, but that doesn't have to mean murdering criminals. Let Holly and Jessica's killers live with the guilt for the rest of their lives in a miserable jail cell. Once again, these comments sincerly are respectfully submitted.

[oabyone]

Fair play. But I would still like to see some laws and sentencing changed. They must be stiffer. Crime is always one step ahead no matter what crime is being committed. I know what you are saying about living with the guilt, but do they. As always happens, prople are more concerned with the guilty party, and how they must be treated. To me they are second best, if that. My feelings will always be with the family. As for the family of the criminals, it is them who carry the guilt. There is never going to be a right way to deal with people like these, but I hate it when people still say, there human beings. The reason those who killed my brother got off. They blamed it on the one who couldn't live with the guilt. they blamed it on the boy who hanged himself. Did I feel sorry for him or his family? No. Thanks for all your comments, thats what makes the world go round. And the fact that you answered my question, shows you care.

[snaykz]

Oabyone, I believe that we share a similar viewpoint on this topic in general, it is just that we have focused on where our opinions differ in order to carry out the discussion. Well done on kickstarting one of the best discussions I have ever seen on this site.

[oabyone]

cheers

[M.T.Vessel]

I think it is terrible what happened to them girls and they should bring back the death sentence to people who murder children, does anyone agree with me?