ChatterBank0 min ago
Five Reasons Why Trump...
57 Answers
...is (a) a good thing or (b) a bad thing for .... America? the world?
I will give £50 each of the ten best answers (my judgment only - no appeal).
"Best" means: do I like it, is it tightly reasoned, is it funny?
Must be able to donate on-line. Nominate your charity.
I will give £50 each of the ten best answers (my judgment only - no appeal).
"Best" means: do I like it, is it tightly reasoned, is it funny?
Must be able to donate on-line. Nominate your charity.
Answers
I think it *could* be a good thing, but that will depend on a lot of things going right, and I'd probably lay my $50 on my idea of "good" being literally the opposite of that of his supporters. But indirectly, it may have good indirect benefits. I'll try to be brief, for a change, but: 1. Trump's victory is a huge blow to an establishmen
22:41 Thu 10th Nov 2016
I saw that, Khandro, but didn't think much of it.
v-e -- problem is, I don't really know what Trump is going to do as president. So it's very difficult to talk about that. I don't think Trump knows, yet. Sure, he said a lot, but often he contradicted himself (sometimes within hours), and that should leave even his supporters essentially clueless about his plans.
I am however worried about his moral impact. Not directly, necessarily, but with Republicans in the house they have the ability to set the agenda for not just four years but potentially decades. Obama was blocked from making a nomination to the Supreme Court, and now that will go to Trump. Everyone fears that he'll appoint someone who would happily overturn laws on abortion, gay marriage, various other rights for women/ minorities/ LGBT community, etc. I can't speak about him positively, from a moral point of view, as long as that remains a possible outcome.
Sure I could play devil's advocate -- but, in this case, that would feel rather too accurate a job description.
v-e -- problem is, I don't really know what Trump is going to do as president. So it's very difficult to talk about that. I don't think Trump knows, yet. Sure, he said a lot, but often he contradicted himself (sometimes within hours), and that should leave even his supporters essentially clueless about his plans.
I am however worried about his moral impact. Not directly, necessarily, but with Republicans in the house they have the ability to set the agenda for not just four years but potentially decades. Obama was blocked from making a nomination to the Supreme Court, and now that will go to Trump. Everyone fears that he'll appoint someone who would happily overturn laws on abortion, gay marriage, various other rights for women/ minorities/ LGBT community, etc. I can't speak about him positively, from a moral point of view, as long as that remains a possible outcome.
Sure I could play devil's advocate -- but, in this case, that would feel rather too accurate a job description.
jim; You saw the video and you " didn't think much of it." Why, I wonder? do you refute the facts as laid out about the Clintons and their foundation vis a vis the Saudis?
If Trump hadn't won, a worse scenario would have been that she would and nothing would change, and boy does the world need some changes.
Trump will destroy, or at least significantly change the power structure of the Republican Party and the power structure of the Democratic Party too, not to mention the power of the media which has been attempting to denigrate him throughout the campaign (and many have been taken in by it) To continue to do so when he is once in office would be to attack the US itself.
I counter your pessimism with (slightly reserved) optimism.
If Trump hadn't won, a worse scenario would have been that she would and nothing would change, and boy does the world need some changes.
Trump will destroy, or at least significantly change the power structure of the Republican Party and the power structure of the Democratic Party too, not to mention the power of the media which has been attempting to denigrate him throughout the campaign (and many have been taken in by it) To continue to do so when he is once in office would be to attack the US itself.
I counter your pessimism with (slightly reserved) optimism.
There is plenty of legitimate material to use to denigrate Trump. The fact that he's likely to spend some of his term bogged down by answering dozens of lawsuits (for fraud, etc etc, and particularly with respect to "Trump University"), for example. The rest has all been said, and it had sadly not enough impact.
Problem with your argument is that while change may well be needed, it still doesn't follow that any change is worth pursuing. Whatever. I tried to put the case yesterday that Trump provides the chance for a shake-up all the same. We will see what that change brings, but you'll forgive me for being less than optimistic about it, given all that he has said, and done, over the campaign and throughout his involvement in politics.
Problem with your argument is that while change may well be needed, it still doesn't follow that any change is worth pursuing. Whatever. I tried to put the case yesterday that Trump provides the chance for a shake-up all the same. We will see what that change brings, but you'll forgive me for being less than optimistic about it, given all that he has said, and done, over the campaign and throughout his involvement in politics.
On the whole I would say that the result is a good thing. I feel safer with someone like Trump (whose instinct is to 'do a deal' with Putin) as opposed to hawkish Clinton. (Not a lot, but safer.)
From the UK's P.O.V. we are fortunate in that Farage has generated a positive feeling and this could help us greatly in our survival post-Brexit.
Sorry, vetutse, not funny, but there you go. :)
From the UK's P.O.V. we are fortunate in that Farage has generated a positive feeling and this could help us greatly in our survival post-Brexit.
Sorry, vetutse, not funny, but there you go. :)
Wolf:
//Bad thing - potential Armageddon and the end of the civilised world.//
College campuses int the USA are offering therapy dogs and organising cry-ins for the snowflakes, Wolf. I'm sure your cat can help you out here.
Terrible answer, but one of my regular charities.
"Please check your Gift Aid status below. If you wish to change your status, please contact us.
Your donation details:
Reference Number: 36142
Donation Amount: £50.00
Gift Aid: Yes
Best Regards,
Cats Protection".
//Bad thing - potential Armageddon and the end of the civilised world.//
College campuses int the USA are offering therapy dogs and organising cry-ins for the snowflakes, Wolf. I'm sure your cat can help you out here.
Terrible answer, but one of my regular charities.
"Please check your Gift Aid status below. If you wish to change your status, please contact us.
Your donation details:
Reference Number: 36142
Donation Amount: £50.00
Gift Aid: Yes
Best Regards,
Cats Protection".
Tambourine:
//A. Sublime silence from
1. Byonce
2. Lady Gaga
3.J. Lo
4. Hillary Clinton
5. Barak Obama//
Agree with 3-5, Tambo. But Gaga and Beyoncé?
Some here may know that I like Puccini and will think my taste in music can't sink any lowere. I'm going to prove you wrong. One of my favourite videos.
NSPCC ref#: WB02727065.
//A. Sublime silence from
1. Byonce
2. Lady Gaga
3.J. Lo
4. Hillary Clinton
5. Barak Obama//
Agree with 3-5, Tambo. But Gaga and Beyoncé?
Some here may know that I like Puccini and will think my taste in music can't sink any lowere. I'm going to prove you wrong. One of my favourite videos.
NSPCC ref#: WB02727065.
More for Tambo. Bobbits?
"Dear [VE],
Thank you very much for your kind gift of £50.00. It will help us continue to provide serving and ex-Service men and women and their dependents in need with practical, financial or emotional support.
The Royal British Legion was first formed in the aftermath of war in 1921. A century on from the First World War, those serving in the Armed Forces, veterans and their families still call on us for help with almost every aspect of daily life. The problems facing First World War veterans when they returned to the UK continue to affect serving personnel and veterans today: whether living with bereavement or disability, finding employment, or coping with financial stress.
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If you have any queries about your donation, please contact our Supporter Careline via email, or telephone us on 0845 845 1945.
Once again thank you for your kindness.
Yours sincerely
Charles Byrne
Director of Fundraising
The Royal British Legion"
"Dear [VE],
Thank you very much for your kind gift of £50.00. It will help us continue to provide serving and ex-Service men and women and their dependents in need with practical, financial or emotional support.
The Royal British Legion was first formed in the aftermath of war in 1921. A century on from the First World War, those serving in the Armed Forces, veterans and their families still call on us for help with almost every aspect of daily life. The problems facing First World War veterans when they returned to the UK continue to affect serving personnel and veterans today: whether living with bereavement or disability, finding employment, or coping with financial stress.
Thanks to the generosity of people like you, The Royal British Legion can continue to provide much needed help and support to the many thousands who call on us in their hour of need.
If you have any queries about your donation, please contact our Supporter Careline via email, or telephone us on 0845 845 1945.
Once again thank you for your kindness.
Yours sincerely
Charles Byrne
Director of Fundraising
The Royal British Legion"
Scowie, establishment max eh? And Bernie Sanders as the night at the end of the tunnel. I think I should be spending the £50 on therapy rather than donating it to Shelter.
"Hello [VE],
Thank you so much for your donation of £50 to Shelter - we're so pleased you've decided to support us.
....
Best wishes,
Mark Cook
Supporter Helpdesk Adviser2
"Hello [VE],
Thank you so much for your donation of £50 to Shelter - we're so pleased you've decided to support us.
....
Best wishes,
Mark Cook
Supporter Helpdesk Adviser2
Jim, "complacent", "need to sell our arguments better"?
What are these arguments: that illegal immigration is sometimes a good thing? That legal immigration is always a good thing? Arguments usually backed up by the accusation that anyone who challenges either of these dogmas is a racist? Has it occurred to you that Trump's supporters may think the question "How will this affect America?" is not only a reasonable question, but one that it is duty of all US administrations to ask in the formulation of immigration policy?
Talking about the deplorables, here's a bit of eye-candy for you, Jim.
"[email protected]
Reply|
Today, 14:20"
What are these arguments: that illegal immigration is sometimes a good thing? That legal immigration is always a good thing? Arguments usually backed up by the accusation that anyone who challenges either of these dogmas is a racist? Has it occurred to you that Trump's supporters may think the question "How will this affect America?" is not only a reasonable question, but one that it is duty of all US administrations to ask in the formulation of immigration policy?
Talking about the deplorables, here's a bit of eye-candy for you, Jim.
"[email protected]
Reply|
Today, 14:20"
Four posters who answered my question - TTT, Khandro, Ellipsis and Jourdain - haven't nominated charities. Will donate to one of my choosing if I haven't heard from you guys before Saturday. My default used to be Médecins sans Frontières. But I think this otherwise admirable organisation has been infiltrated by the trots.
My own view? One good thing is (if not the end, at least) the suspension of political correctness for four years. Another is the end of the real divisive and hateful discourse which is pervading American society. This is not the xenophobia and racism of the deplorables, but the the ugly hatred we see in the supporters of Black Lives Matter and generation snowflake. Both Obama and Clinton have endorsed the BLM movement. Both have endorsed the the slur that US police are institutionally biased against blacks.
The Trump policy I think the most dangerous is protectionism. Whether China is fighting fair or not, the dynamics of world trade are constantly shifting. While you can feel for those whose jobs have been "exported abroad", I don't think Trump can get those jobs back without throwing the whole world into recession. In four years the Trump voters in the Rust Belt may feel betrayed.
Here's one of my favourite conservatives (an economist) talking about the president elect.
The Trump policy I think the most dangerous is protectionism. Whether China is fighting fair or not, the dynamics of world trade are constantly shifting. While you can feel for those whose jobs have been "exported abroad", I don't think Trump can get those jobs back without throwing the whole world into recession. In four years the Trump voters in the Rust Belt may feel betrayed.
Here's one of my favourite conservatives (an economist) talking about the president elect.
But for the dykes, Demos might won. Thanx for donations...below is a worthy cause
https:/
https:/
I've said most of the stuff in reply to that elsewhere on AB, v-e. It's an interesting definition of divisive and hateful discourse that manages to exclude everything Trump, or his supporters, said during the campaign. Particularly as even his campaign team have acknowledged that a lot of what was said was divisive and even hateful, and tried to get Trump to calm down (and failed). In the event, it didn't seem to matter, because America is already divided -- Trump exploited this, rather than created it, but his campaign was still divisive and hateful.
As to BLM -- well, it's a movement that, like all others stoked by righteous anger, sometimes lashes out at the wrong targets in the wrong way. There are real problems between (some) police and (some) black people, and it's crazy to pretend otherwise. Perhaps the real problem is that it seems never to matter what the circumstances are; police simply don't get prosecuted, or properly investigated. There is no formal equivalent of the IPCC in the US. Instead, investigations such as there are tend to be conducted internally, and -- well, come on, do you really think that's going to be impartial if it's your friends and colleagues doing the investigating? No doubt the religious adherence to the 2nd Amendment plays its part too. Whatever the causes, though, portraying BLM as somehow the "real" hate, and minimising the hate in the other direction, is a gross distortion of the reality.
As to BLM -- well, it's a movement that, like all others stoked by righteous anger, sometimes lashes out at the wrong targets in the wrong way. There are real problems between (some) police and (some) black people, and it's crazy to pretend otherwise. Perhaps the real problem is that it seems never to matter what the circumstances are; police simply don't get prosecuted, or properly investigated. There is no formal equivalent of the IPCC in the US. Instead, investigations such as there are tend to be conducted internally, and -- well, come on, do you really think that's going to be impartial if it's your friends and colleagues doing the investigating? No doubt the religious adherence to the 2nd Amendment plays its part too. Whatever the causes, though, portraying BLM as somehow the "real" hate, and minimising the hate in the other direction, is a gross distortion of the reality.
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