End The Whing-O-Rama, Good Advice From Bojo?

[ToraToraTora]

http://news.sky.com/story/snap-out-of-donald-trump-doom-and-gloom-says-boris-johnson-10652841

[naomi24]

Jim, when Gulliver mentions Brexit I don't think he talking about it in the same vein that Trump is talking about it - but I'll await his answer.

As for my question on rioting, all you're seeing is pictures on television and in newspapers so you can't differentiate. I'll take it you just want to support them anyway because you don't like the result of the election.

[jim360]

Then you're taking it the wrong way. But never mind.

I don't like the result of the election. I am angry about it. I won't sink so low as to riot about it but I don't see that I, or anyone else in my position, should be silent either.

[naomi24]

Jim, //I don't see that I, or anyone else in my position, should be silent either. //

From my experience of your response to the referendum result I think I'd be quite justified in saying "no chance of that". Bad losers all.

[zebo]

For all the comparisons between Brexit and the Trump win we need to remember that the Americans can reverse their decision if it's not working out in four years time.
I started to imagine the impossible when in the States at Easter, he hadn't yet got the nomination but we met so many sane people who were going to vote for Trump, especially if Clinton was the opposition, I still think that he didn't win it rather she lost it by alienating the electorate and taking the outcome for granted.
Not a happy thought but the DM claims that Chelsea Clinton is being prepared for Congress!

[Jackdaw33]

Why are you angry? Whilst I favoured Trump I couldn't have given a monkey's if Clinton had won. None of my business, really.

[jim360]

Which bit of my response to the Brexit result are you talking about?

[naomi24]

Jim, you've complained so much I've lost track.

Jackdaw has asked you a question. I'm off to bed. Night all.

[jim360]

My own theory is that Trump's support splits into three broad groups (probably with plenty of overlap): those who liked him, those who didn't liked him but hated Clinton more, and those who didn't care for him but were Republican and wanted to vote for the Republican guy come what may.

As another stat in this election, apparently it's the first time ever that all senate races matched the Presidential results in the relevant states. I don't see how that's possible without partisan support being basically the dominant factor in this election.

[Cloverjo]

Why are people still calling it 'sour grapes' when some of us don't like the result of a major election? It's not as if our favourite team lost and we're a bit upset; we're worried about the effect on our country, the US and the world.

Instead of rioting, which I would never do, of course. How about signing this petition and letting America know that lots of us are worrying about what will happen now?
https://www.change.org/p/electoral-college-electors-electoral-college-make-hillary-clinton-president-on-december-19?recruiter=625899926&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive

[jim360]

Give me time to reply already, Naomi :P

I don't think it's irrelevant what happens in the US to people over here. Perhaps we'll be somewhat protected from it really, but it's a sad message to send to the world that a man like Trump is tolerated to such an extent that he's able to become possibly the most powerful person in the world (in a couple of months). I don't like what that says about the US -- and, as I linked his victory to Brexit, about the rest of the Western world. It's been suggested that in France's upcoming elections, Marine le Pen could now have a great chance of winning there, too.

[Jackdaw33]

That takes the biscuit!

[-Talbot-]

jim360
No, I don't think that rioting in the street is the right way to do this. But it's a start, maybe.



Quite often the nice, tolerant wonderfully kind and caring folk of AB come out with something utterly bizarre ... proving they are actually no better than the bigoted knuckle-draggers.

[jim360]

Well, you did ask. And I answered.

It matters who is the US President. And even if it doesn't directly matter to the UK so much, why shouldn't I care about what goes on in a country where some of my friends live?

[Jackdaw33]

It's been suggested that in France's upcoming elections, Marine Le Pen could now have a great chance of winning there, too.

Don't get my hopes up, Jim, although they do say everything comes in threes.
Brexit, Trump and now Le Pen? I can't be that lucky, surely.

[jim360]

It's a mistake to cal Clinton a liberal, though. Indeed, many full-blooded Liberals were angry a long time before today, because their preferred candidate lost the race for the Democratic nomination, but switched to supporting Clinton anyway. And are angrier still, because Trump won and they just lost twice in a year rather than once.

At any rate, Clinton is to Liberals in about the same way that Cameron was a proper Tory.

[Jackdaw33]

...and Blair was a socialist!

[jim360]

Exactly.

Returning to the OP, the whinging is well-justified in part even if it's done badly. Even some Trump supporters are capable of recognising that he won more because of a badly-designed system than anything else -- so how do you think Hillary Clinton's supporters, who are after all the plurality in this election, feel? Cheated, I should say.

More of them might have turned out, of course. But still, the fact that the US electoral system is so badly designed (essentially, it prefers states to the people who live in them) shouldn't be tolerated. One of these days, instead of shrugging our shoulders as political systems that made sense two-hundred odd years ago, but otherwise doing nothing, we might get around to updating them to reflect better the people they are meant to serve.

Again, the parallels with Brexit can be easily drawn. How many people here have expressed their anger at the recent court decision that, in essence, told them all that the referendum they voted in had no meaning unless Parliament endorsed the result? Even though I've pointed out that they should, morally, do so, it hasn't assuaged fears that the ruling will allow MPs to overturn the will of the people. But hey, that's how the system works, so why are you moaning (or, as some people have talked about, why are you planning to protest in the streets or riot? Heck, Nigel Farage plans to lead a huge march on the Supreme Court on the first day of the hearing there).

I would have thought the answer is obvious: because it's a bad system, badly designed, and badly implemented. In this case there was a possible fix, which is to have written the relevant act better so that the result would have been binding in law. Or, we could realise that in future referenda must be held according to set rules that make it clear what the outcome is and what its effect in law will be. You shouldn't really have had to put up with such a bad system, and why not complain about it.

And nor should those who lost on Tuesday, even though they were on the winning side in the popular vote.