Innocent until proven guilty vs yob culture

[january_bug]

What are your views on Blair's speech shown on the news last night about "summary justice"?  Is it an ebbing away of our rights, or what is needed to kickstart the battle against yob culture?  What effect do you think "summary justice" will have on the court system?

I'll give you my ideas below, later, when there isn't a queue for the pc!

[Dom Tuk]

This summary justice malarkey just wont work. its another idea bandied about with great fanfare and when you look at it in a few years not many such fines will actually have been collected. remember those 'parents will be fined if kids bunk school' line.

Imagine this scenario, yobs kick a door in in a high street. police on scene, yobs run away, police know who they are and say 'will get you next time'. Next day, yobs hanging around same high street, sober and not doing much. Police say...'gotcha' saw you urinate on that doorway so heres your fine. Where is the control, where is the evidence...now dont go telling me our police wont do that...remember how many drugs were planted?

Another scenario. Yobs get caught in the act. Police say 'you are fined' Yob says No i am not payng. Police say whats your name and address...yob says i am not telling you, you cant make me. Yob gets arrested and taken to the station. PACE kicks in. he gets a solicitor. Back to square one. What has changed.

[Ward-Minter]

Like your answer on the war issue you are so misled. PACE will kick in even before a fine is mentioned.

I do agree with you that fines won't work but you offer no alternative.

My views, no doubt more right that your A level sociology, anti-establishment, conspiracist world you live in, will be to kill them. If you don't contribute to society then expunge them. Simple as that.

Now offer an alternative.

Planting drugs.......don't remember that either. Every police officer I have met seems honest and diligent to the extremely hard job they face. Go and wave your Che Guevara banner on your next march and enjoy saving the Ubekistani refugees whilst planting trees in your wannabe rain forest.

[Oneeyedvic]

"if you don't contribute to society then expunge them"

Right, firstly, lets kill all people aged over 65 - no longer contributing, just bleeding the state dry.

Secondly, lets shoot all the disabled people (if they can't hold down full time jobs) - after all they are not really contributing.

Thirdly, and asylum seeker who comes here from an oppressive regime (like Zimbabwe) - either get a job, and worship the UK or we'll shoot you

Fourthly, all those people who fought for our country but came back emotionally and mentally scarred - you should have given your life - we might as well ship you back and use you for canon fodder - after all you are hardly going to contribute to society now.

Fifth, anyone who breaks any law - from rape and murder through to speeding and litter dropping - shoot them. Lets face it - once a criminal always a criminal.

No alternative needed

 

 

 

Apologies to anyone who takes offense at the above - it is meant to be tongue in cheek in response to Ward-Minter

[Ward-Minter]

I liked your style until I read the last bit. Shame.

[january_bug]

No-one's really answering my point about the effect on the court system. 

WM - are you actually llike this in real life, or do you just say it to get a reaction?  I mean, if I told you my sister has Downs Syndrome and was severely disabled, would you actually agree that she should be killed off as she is a drain on society?  Do you really look at everything in such monetary terms? 

Also - where do you draw the line with shooting/killing criminals?  Seriously - what is your cut off point?  As vic points out (still picturing a girl, never mind!)  people who commit minor offences are still criminals.  Do you think they ALL should be shot. I'd be interested to know what %age of the population would be shot under such a simplistic idea. 

[january_bug]

TYPO - I meant "aruge" not "agree" that she should be killed. 

[january_bug]

Or ARGUE even!  Cripes!  Good job this is "my" thread I'm bunging up! lol

[Ward-Minter]

well jan bug. In theory if you shoot every criminal for every minor offence then crime would be eradicated forthwith. Kill a few for dropping litter and pretty soon there will be no litter bugs. etc etc.

Alas, this is a bit too dictorial for my liberal politics.

So... I propose the death penalty for world facists, murderers (depends on the circumstances) ALL kiddy fiddlers, ALL terrorists, traitors (again depends on circumstances), rapists and some robbers (depends on level of violence used.

Further I don't know if you remembered an earlie thread. I also propose human experiments as an option to death for the benefit cancer and AIDS research etc.

PS jan bug stop flirting. I am happily married!!

[january_bug]

You started it!! ;-)

I just think that death row is pretty expensive too!  Well, it's all a debate for another day I suppose. 

I'm just glad no-ones yelled at me for being on the side of the yobs.  Which means that for once, everyone involved must have actually read and understood what I said! YAY!

[jno]

totally off topic bug but there's a thread on B&S called I've been conned, where I think you could offer some sensible advice if you're around that way. Poor gal's attracted only some unjustified abuse when she needs help

[january_bug]

heya - I'll have a look!

Total chance that I bothered to check my buggy emails today and saw that you'd added here!  Thanks! :-)