I Wonder

[TWR]

Mirror this morning, 30 million owed to the NHS by overseas Patients, & yet if we owed Tax they would be on to us like a ton of bricks, is there something wrong here?

[bhg481]

Yes, but the minute it's suggested that we carry proof of eligibility for NHS treatment there are those who call it losing our freedom. You can't have it both ways.

[youngmafbog]

Something is very wrong. Part of the problem are those that see the NHS as the WHS and love to spend other peoples money to serve their own ideology, generally the same as the ones who dont like ID cards.

[naomi24]

Of course there's something wrong here. We're too soft.

[dannyk13]

bhg481
//Yes, but the minute it's suggested that we carry proof of eligibility for NHS treatment there are those who call it losing our freedom//
Everyone already has(or should have) an NHS Medical Card with an NHS number which would be proof of entitlement to health care.

[TWR]

Not really Dan, you can print them off on Ebay, a passport ID is the way to go.

[dannyk13]

TWR, Passports have been faked many times.

[youngmafbog]

It would be quite possible to make an ID card, with photo and biometrics, that would be difficult, or at least not financially viable, to fake.

[bhg481]

danny - the problem is that the NHS Medical card is made of card, so will not survive long if carried all the time. The NHS needs to issue plastic cards, similar to credit cards (with a chip) and signature. They're obviously cheap enough to produce and, whilst not foolproof, would be adequate to prove eligibility for treatment. All things are forgable by determined people but most people wouldn't be able to do it. There's no point having a very expensive, fool-proof system - that defeats the object. All you ned is something pretty good at a resonable cost and EASY for NHS staff to check.

[EDDIE51]

The main problem is that people arrive in the UK in a condition that requires immediate emergency treatment.Emergency treatment is free , it has to be, you can't leave someone in danger of death while you check if they are going to be able to pay for treatment.
The best known example of this is 'The Lagos Shuttle' women from Nigeria arrive at Heathrow on a direct flight from Lagos. They are so far advanced in pregnancy (usually starting labour) that they have to be taken direct from the airport to St Thomas's hospital maternity unit. Once they have given birth they just walk out of the hospital with the child .This scam is condoned or even organised by the Nigerian government who issue permits to travel to women who are so far pregnant that they should not be allowed on a plane.

[EDDIE51]

ID or Medical cards will not stop this!
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration/10540881/The-300-maternity-tourists.html

[ToraToraTora]

we give £9m to african girl bands TWR, nothing surprises me.

[Old_Geezer]

You can have it both ways. Registered patients are already known and on the NHS data records, so need minimum/no proof of identity to their GP or hospital. Foreign visitors are not and will be requesting seeing someone for whatever they should be paying for.

[TWR]

TTT, It's no wonder the place is on its Knees, some will think otherwise.

[mikey4444]

bhg is right here. National Identity Cards have been debated many times on here, but the issue has never been resolved.

I personally, have no problem with the concept of a ID Card. If we had these , then there are all sorts of situations where we could use then to our advantage.

[KARL]

When stories emerge of Brits in the USA being asked to prove ability to pay before medical assistance is granted, howls of indignation go up in the UK. Deliberate scams aside, a suggestion of as a default refusing treatment to a non-Brit in the UK is of course a double standard. All countries take a risk when as a matter of course they treat sick foreigners and all of them end up with a bag of un-collectable debts. In the scheme of things, how much is £30 million within the NHS turnover ? Clearly it is too much for those with a particular agenda but is it any more proportionately when comparing with, say, other countries in Europe ? In particular, is it more than medical debts left by Brits abroad ?

[ToraToraTora]

ID cards are irrelevant, we are civilised we give treatment first and ask questions later. Not saying we shouldn't charge but we should not emulate the barbarous medical systems of most of the rest of the uncivilized world. We also need to do something about the organised abuse that goes on from places like Nigeria as mentioned by eddie.

[youngmafbog]

//howls of indignation go up in the UK//

Really, by who?

//how much is £30 million//

It is a lot of money. Unless you are yet another rich ABer who things it is pocket change.

Eddie, the answer is simple. We should insist on full medical insurance prior to entry into the UK, also make it plain that no one pregnant can enter more than 6 months pregnant. If an airline or ferry allow one through they should be responsible for the fees. Bet they would soon be very vigilant.

[mikey4444]

Why are ID cards irrelevant TTT ?

No one is making a case for the withholding of emergency medical aid to anyone that is in our country. The issue is non-emergency care, and an ID card would help to show if the person holding one was entitled to use our NHS or not. It would show entitlement for lots of others things.

But if £30 million is owed by overseas patients, then why is that money not being chased up by our authorities ?

[ToraToraTora]

good idea YMB, we should charge the carriers for the medical bills that would sort it overnight.

[EDDIE51]

^ Try telling that to Nigerian Airways, they are covered as the government issue 'permits to fly' to women who are 9 months pregnant!
Youngmafbog, you are missing the point ! People arrive in the UK already with a condition that needs immediate emergency treatment ! They CAN NOT be refused entry under those conditions and they know the system.
We can't refuse entry no matter if they have medical insurance or not if it is an emergency.
Once here and treated what can we do? We can't keep them prisoner until the bill is paid!