It Would Seem That Trump Is Not Alone In His Thinking.

[anotheoldgit]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4199918/Most-Europeans-want-end-migration-Muslim-countries.html

/// 55 per cent of Europeans across 10 countries think further immigration from mostly-Muslim countries should stop. ///

And that was before Donald Trump introduced his controversial immigration ban in the US.

[ummmm]

I'm sure everyone can understand the reason behind wanting a ban with the amount of terror attacks and the threat levels.

The problem is people with genuine visas. The ones who are qualified in their field not being to get back in if they leave the US.

[vortex]

Another one of those very close percentages.

Not overly convincing, still it's an indicator of growing unrest perhaps?

[jim360]

Except that, like, most of the US Department of Justice's case revolves around the claim that this *isn't* a "Muslim ban".

[vortex]

Trump falls into that over 60 category that most favours a ban.

It must be a reliable benchmark!

[Gromit]

Just because public opinion narrowly favours something, does not mean it is right.
People in 27 European Countries support EU membership. Do you think that proves the EU is wonderful?

[vortex]

Gromit //People in 27 European Countries support EU membership. //

They all haven't had a referendum though have they?

[Gromit]

Vortex,
No referendum, but they all elected Governments that approved the Lisbon Treaty in Parluament.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratification_of_the_Treaty_of_Lisbon

Are you doubting the majority of EU citizens want to be members?

[naomi24]

Ummmm, //The problem is people with genuine visas. The ones who are qualified in their field not being to get back in if they leave the US.//

There appears to be a lot of confusion/hysteria over this.

//The Foreign and Commonwealth office confirmed:
• The Presidential executive order only applies to individuals travelling from one of the seven named countries.
• If you are travelling to the US from anywhere other than one of those countries (for instance, the UK) the executive order does not apply to you and you will experience no extra checks regardless of your nationality or your place of birth.
• If you are a UK national who happens to be travelling from one of those countries to the US, then the order does not apply to you – even if you were born in one of those countries.
• If you are a dual citizen of one of those countries travelling to the US from OUTSIDE those countries then the order does not apply to you.
• The only dual nationals who might have extra checks are those coming from one of the seven countries themselves – for example a UK-Libya dual national coming from Libya to the US.//
http://www.itv.com/news/update/2017-01-29/uk-dual-nationals-exempt-from-trump-travel-ban/

Jim, if it was a Muslim ban, would it not have been applied to more countries?

[vortex]

Gromit, not wishing to divert AOG's thread but I have no idea what other citizen's thoughts are.

[andy-hughes]

The difficulty with this idea is over-simplification - if you stop Muslims coming in, you stop terrorists coming in.

This is obviously arrant nonsense, but it is a wonderful idea if you want to appeal to citizens who have no grasp of political and social complexities, and no grasp of the way world politics works.

Of course, head of that queue is President Trump, who loves to believe that long-standing vastly complex issues have simple knee-jerk solve-in-a-day solutions - and that is a large reason why he is no President - because that is what he offered the American people.

What President Trump and his electorate, and a large swathe of Europe it seems, fail to grasp is this - if this was the solution, why didn't any of the previous administrations sign up to it and have it im place by now?

Is it because they just never thought of it, and President Trump is a genius for figuring it out?

Or is it because this is not a feasible workable solution, so that's why no-one is doing it.

Simple solutions appeal - but because they are simple, the are not practical.

So it's time to take heads out of clouds, and start being realistic about the issues, and the ways to tackle them.

A great place to start would be in President Trump's mind, where simplicity is the default position.

[Gromit]

Vortex

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-eu-poll-idUKKCN1002A0

[naomi24]

Gromit/Vortex, according to Reuters, most Europeans, especially the French, are unhappy with the EU - and that was before our referendum so that can't have influenced them.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-eu-popularity-poll-idUKBRE9540F620130605

[vortex]

Doesn't stop home-grown terrorism either.

[Gromit]

I have an even simpler idea.

Let's just ban Saudi Arabians.

[andy-hughes]

vortex - //Doesn't stop home-grown terrorism either. //

It doesn't stop terrorism full stop!

ISIS can whistle up converts from any number of western nations and have them on planes the US in a day.

President Trump has proved himself naive and out of touch once again.

[anotheoldgit]

Gromit

/// No referendum, but they all elected Governments that approved the Lisbon Treaty in Parluament. ///

Most of us elect our preferred governments, but that does not necessarily mean that we approve of all their decisions.

[jim360]

Naomi -- that question was raised in the Appeal yesterday, one judge wondering if a ban that applied to something like 15% of the global Muslim population could be called a "Muslim ban".

It might just be a case of mission creep. After all, Trump, whom you have praised for doing what he says, rather pointedly announced during his campaign for the Republican nomination that he was calling for "a total and complete shutdown of all Muslims entering the United States until our country's representatives can figure out what is going on." Apparently the background to this Executive Order was to find a way of, at least partially, implementing that in a way that was legal. In which case it may have failed -- inevitably, the US Supreme Court will test this at some point later in the year -- but, also, I'd be surprised if this was the last Executive Order targeting immigration from majority Muslim countries that Trump signs.

I don't see how you can have it both ways. Trump doing what he says,a characteristic you've praised, amounts to targeting Muslims specifically. Trying to welsh out of that won't wash. While the language of this EO avoids mentioning Islam, making it difficult to call this legally a Muslim Ban, common sense and context tell us otherwise.

[andy-hughes]

AOG - //Most of us elect our preferred governments, but that does not necessarily mean that we approve of all their decisions. //

I would be surprised if anyone in America who has an inkling about what is going on in the world, approves of any of The President's decisions thus far.Ttwo weeks gone, three-and-a-lot years to go!

[anotheoldgit]

vortex

/// Doesn't stop home-grown terrorism either. ///

It may have done if we had introduced such measures years ago.

[naomi24]

Yes Jim, I know that, but this will also apply to people of other religions travelling from those countries, so it isn’t just Muslims who are affected. It's everyone.