prison sentancing

[sharon01]

if someone was aged 15 years old and had been charged with ABH, carrying an offensive weapon and using an offensive weapon, the offensive weapon being a bb gun,  was is the chances of a custodual sentance, roughly how long.   Child has been in trouble before and under the youth offending team

[Andy008]

Not a great deal of chance, as the criminal justice system in the UK is designed to protect the criminal, not the public.

[pixi]

hi sharon sorry I dont know the answer to your question but are bb guns really offensive weapons ?  Reason I ask is because my lad has got a couple and sometimes him and his mates go over the fields shooting targets and stuff

[january_bug]

pixi - make sure your son doesn't go to public areas with his BB gun then!  Yes - they are an offensive weapon because they LOOK like a firearm.  Remember it's an offence to make someone fear for their lives (just think, a boy with a BB gun could hold up a jewellery shop if the owner/worker thought it was a real gun - not that your son ever would).  Therefore, he should always keep the gun in a closed bag, and make sure that it is fully disabled and concealed when travelling to the fields.  Is there a way one of the boys could carry the BBs and the others could each carry a gun?  That way no-one has a working gun on them when they are moving around.  I knowit sounds a pain, but you don't want an innocent boy getting in trouble for basically just playing!

Andy - you're talking cr.a.p but then you knew that already.  The system is designed to protect the public in the long run. It might not work particularly well, but the intention is there. 

It sounds to me very much like this hypothetical little boy needs protecting.  There is obviously something going wrong in his life, and it therefore is the duty of the state to help put him on the right track.  Now that might be something like counselling or more work with the YOT lot, and people like Andy008 would say that that is a soft touch (I belive he would call for the imaginary boy to be sent into the army). 

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/section5/chapter_c.html#09

This doesn't offer much on sentencing for minors.  Perhaps a magistrate or criminal solicitor/barrister/YOT worker uses this site and can help better. 

I would think that a custodial sentence in a YOI may be used, to try to sort out the life of a boy such as this. 

[pixi]

hi buggy thanks for that, i never for one minute thought of anything like that.  I will have a word with the lads (they are all sensible and im sure they will realise what i am on about)   good idea about one carrying the guns and someone else carrying the bb pellets, thanks again

sorry for nicking thread sharon :)

[january_bug]

You're welcome pixi.  It's so daft the things we have to think of, but hopefully it will enable them to keep enjoying their afternoons/weekends without getting into any silly trouble. 

Also sorry sharon - but it's a related point, honest! :-)

[sharon01]

FYI,  he got sentanced to 2 years YOI nobody is going to address his emotional problems,  I think the situation will be worse when he gets out. and  Andy008 my son is not a criminal he needs help

[january_bug]

The YOI will hopefully address some of the emotional problems.  There will be courses and groups and things for him hopefully.  I'm sure you will play an active role in his progress and that this will help him.  They will hopefully, with your help, find the route of his problems and help to address that. 

Might I politely suggest that if you want to avoid having people criticising, that you acknowledge that you're talking about your son, rather than just "someone". 

Also, he technically is a criminal as he now has a criminal record and is serving time.  I do not doubt for one moment that there have been external influences on his recent behaviour and that with the right help he can change, relax and fulfill his positive potential.  But at the moment, I'm afraid that he is a criminal, even if he is also your son!

I wish you both the best of luck in the future.  Keep pressuring them to offer him the support he needs and also offer it yourself.  Then hopefully these few difficult months/years will pass quickly and he (and you!) will be much happier in 12 months time when, for good behaviour, he could be released early.  Just remember that if it's doing him good, a longer stay might, in the long run, be better for him.  Good luck with this difficult period. 

[sharon01]

They think they know the answer all ready apparently its my fault because I left his dad last year.   I got fed up with being a constant punch bag to relieve his moods, i got fed up with being someone he could violate when he needed sexual fulfillment.  I know people are going to say that because my son saw his dad hit me, punch me, slap me thats why he is like he is now.  I love my son very much and I apologise to people when in my orginal question I started with " if someone"  I wanted to say my son.

My son says he knew his dad done those things to me, but he also says I should of stayed married to him and not left.

[mycatis]

sharon, please dont worry too much about your son. I know that sounds like a stupid thing to say, but I got into a lot of trouble when I was young, my mother had a violent partner, I was under social work care then a foster home, constantly getting arrested etc and I'm doing really well now, got my life sorted and wouldn't dream of doing those things. Despite what some people might say teenagers who get into the kind of state don't always grow up to be criminals or bad people.
Best of luck with your son, just be there for him when he gets out. My mum and I have a great relationship now. x x

[january_bug]

sharon - just one final point, well, a question really.  Are YOU getting any sort of support yourself?  It's almost certainly true that the emotional and physical traumas you encountered did have an effect on your son, but that DOESN'T make it your fault!  It sounds to me like you are worrying so much about your son that you are not taking time to try and deal with things for YOU.  Perhaps you can "use" the time while he is away to try to put away some of your own demons and do something for YOU!  You are very important - to you and to your son!  So work to make yourself happy, and that will help your son.  And in less than 5 years time, believe me he will know that what you did was the right thing.  I am sorry to hear what you went through such an awful time.  Now, just remember to look after number one!

Oh, and ignore people being rude about your son, it's easy to believe the tabloids and forget that these kids are real people, and someone's son.  Especially if people are a bit stupid and don't understand such a simple thing!!

[sharon01]

No I havent been offered any support, no domestic violence support, no rape counselling nothing.  I just get told to put what happened in the past and move on with my life

[mycatis]

sharon, are you in the UK? because if you are, can I suggest you go to your local Woman's Aid office, they can still help you, even if you are out of the violent relationship. They have councellers you can talk to. Good luck

[january_bug]

sharon - as mycatis says, it's not always on a plate.  I understand it's tough, but I'm not telling you to just pull yourself up by your bootlaces and get on with it.  But you will have to make some effort yourself.  Here are a few websites you could go to to find local help centres/support groups.  You'll have to find these yourself, but then the help will be there.  The help IS there, if you want it.  If not, then things won't change by themselves. 

http://www.womensaid.org.uk/ (with thanks to mycatis)

http://www.youth-justice-board.gov.uk/YouthJusticeBoard/

http://www.care-for-the-family.org.uk/

Or obviously try www.yell.com or go back to the police station where you reported your ex-husband's crimes are ask them for help.  I'm amazed you weren't given a support pack/offer of counselling when you reported the assaults and rapes.  I'm so sorry to here that.  Now you have the tools, it's up to you to use them. 

[Ward-Minter]

A BB Gun is not an offensive weapon per se. Unless he "intended" to cause injury to another person with it. If the ABH was caused by the BB Gun you can't have two bites of the cherry. It is for the Crown to decide (more often "prove") the intentions

I imagine with three charges this was not the case.

A BB gun is a very grey area. Its not a firearm (under ANY of their acts) and not an offensive weapon.

All that aside lets hope the little terror goes away for a very long time at a young offenders institute and suffers the horrors and terrors he has no doubt caused to countless others

[bigndaft]

Off at an angle here but the police arrest for carrying of replica firearms in public places (bbguns can count). They tend to send armed officers to deal with the reports quite a lot too!

[january_bug]

Indeed bigndaft - as I said before.  If it LOOKS like a gun, they have to treat it as one.  I think BB guns SHOULD be glassed as offensive weapons anyway.  I wouldn't fancy a BB in the eye at point blank range!

WM - leave off, you don't know about the case at all.  (long sentence alert) Could you not at least bring yourself to say that you hope he goes away for long enough to sort himself out and that when he comes out he will have repented for his crimes and will be a better person, able to make a decent contribution to society, and that by correcting the way of one lost young boy, the YOI will have done its job?  (and breathe!) I think being taken away from your Mum and your mates aged 15 sounds terrifying, I don't think he needspunishment enough. 

I realise you will disagree, and that is fine, I'm just still holding a tiny bit of hope that one day you might acknowledge that there is a broader role for prisons and YOIs to play than punishment and incarceration.  If you don't then fine, variety is the spice and all that!

[Ward-Minter]

janny buggy. I know this is off at a slight tangent but consider this.

You want the Prison servive, Probabtion, YOT etc etc to help the offender. That's fine and of course in my "perfect" world I would ultimately prefer them to never cause sufferring to anybody else again. Not in the first place ideally, but its too late now.

We fundamentally disagree on the role of punishment and I shalln't go there now (kill them all etc)

But.... my point is if we help the offender and ensure he/she doesn't commit a crime again, teach them a trade, educate them blah blah what would that make Joe Public feel like if he was the aggrieved?

For example an ignorant, disabled, unemployed, underclassed, immigrant with a turn in his eye gets assaulted and threatened with a BB gun. Mmmm he might get 100 quid from the CCB and as the offender is 15 he wont get compo from the court. That could happen. Where's his help? How are his prospects improved? They are not. So why should the criminal get any priviledge?

Sorry janny. Punishment for that sake only. Full stop.

PS BB guns are not offensive weapons. They may be weopans of offence (different) but under the Offensive Weopans Act and Firearms Act they are clearly not.

[january_bug]

Well the the courts were wrong then and sharon should make sure her child appeals!  Either that or you're splitting hairs and showing off about your superior legal knowledge when the bottom line is that this lady's son has been given a custodial sentence and it's a really hard time for her at the moment. 

If someone gets assaulted, they can sue.  The civil system is there to allow people to get compensation.  The criminal injuries compensation board or whatever it's called now is also there to TRY to help. 

You have to remember that punishment also doesn't always work as a deterrent because many (not every) criminals are so arrogant that they think they won't get caught. 

I personally just tihnk it's very narrow minded to think that just punishing them and leaving it at that will help.  If, heaven forbid, I were ever assaulted, how would having the guy punched back and banged up for 3 months and beaten inside help me?  Not at all.  But helping him to see the error of his ways would stop other women becoming victims in the future.  That, for me, would be compensation enough. 

I concede that rape and murder are another matter. 

Also - I nearly died when it appeared that you were showing sympathy for someone who was

1. disabled
2. unemployed
3. an immigrant

Are you sure you're feeling ok? :-p

[sharon01]

WM dont you think my son is suffering to ?

[january_bug]

It's unlikely that he will have much sympathy for your son sharon!  I've honestly tried to convince WM before.  He's a smart, well-informed guy, but he won't see things from that angle.  By the same token, I'd guess that WM would probably want to see your ex-husband beaten and then killed.  I'm only guessing though - you cna never be sure with WM!

Did you get a chance to look at those links, or to think about telephoning women's aid?  I hope they can offer you some help.  :-)