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Why Did Britain Never Feel "part Of The Eu" ?
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I think Mr Curtice has hit the nail on the head, we never really felt we were involved with the EU it always felt like them and us. What could we/they have done to make it work?
I think Mr Curtice has hit the nail on the head, we never really felt we were involved with the EU it always felt like them and us. What could we/they have done to make it work?
Answers
I never wanted to be part of the EU, I never felt part of it and I am only glad that I have lived to see the day when it starts to fragment. If I had my way I would erect a statue in every town in the land to Nigel Farage, who almost single-
18:12 Wed 12th Apr 2017
“My MP has no interest whatsoever in my welfare – only that he continues to keep his snout in the trough.”
The EU trough is considerably deeper and the numbers gorging themselves at it are considerably higher, Hymie. Among the UK euromaniacs who have gorged there are My Lords Jenkins, Mandelson, Patten and Kinnock, Baroness Kinnock (My Lord Kinnock’s other half), Nick Clegg and Baroness Catherine Ashton,
Do you believe that all these (and the many more less well known) made their all-expenses paid (whether they incurred them or not) trips to and from Brussels (or Strasbourg, if the EU circus was on one of its twelve trips a year there) for the good of the UK people? Did they do so simply because they were concerned that the vile and evil UK government (of which many of them were part at one time or another) would foist inhumane conditions on the electorate? Or could it be that they, having seen that the grass was considerably greener (as far as their income went) on the far side of the Channel, decided to have a little gorge themselves?
The EU trough is considerably deeper and the numbers gorging themselves at it are considerably higher, Hymie. Among the UK euromaniacs who have gorged there are My Lords Jenkins, Mandelson, Patten and Kinnock, Baroness Kinnock (My Lord Kinnock’s other half), Nick Clegg and Baroness Catherine Ashton,
Do you believe that all these (and the many more less well known) made their all-expenses paid (whether they incurred them or not) trips to and from Brussels (or Strasbourg, if the EU circus was on one of its twelve trips a year there) for the good of the UK people? Did they do so simply because they were concerned that the vile and evil UK government (of which many of them were part at one time or another) would foist inhumane conditions on the electorate? Or could it be that they, having seen that the grass was considerably greener (as far as their income went) on the far side of the Channel, decided to have a little gorge themselves?
Yes they both turned it in but for different reasons.
Hezza was the first to go. He chucked his toys from the pram (and stormed out of a Cabinet meeting) because the PM would not accede to his plan that Westland should be taken over by a European consortium (no surprise that he wanted EEC countries to gain the business). To reinforce this he tried to get France, Germany, Italy (and the UK) to agree that no orders would be placed with Westland if they were taken over by US based Sikorsky.
Brittan packed it in a couple of weeks later because he had leaked a letter that had accused Hezza of inaccuracies in his campaign for a European takeover of the company.
All this happened in January 1986. After the customary period in purgatory (three years, in his case) Brittan was appointed a European Commissioner in 1989 eventually becoming Vice-President of the European Commission. He resigned along with the rest of the Commission in 1999 amid accusations of fraud against Jacques Santer and Édith Cresson. During his time as a Vice-President of the European Commission, one subsequently prominent member of his office was a certain Nick Clegg (later to hold the spare keys to No 10 for five years).
So, ten lucrative years with his snout in the trough. It is little wonder that these euromaniacs are so enthralled with the EU. It gives many of them a highly paid second career when they are eventually slung out from the upper echelons of domestic politics (or in the case of My Lord Kinnock, before they even entered it). It also goes some way to explaining why most of the UK electorate who voted in the referendum voted to leave. They don't like to see the people who have ceased to Lord it over them for one reason or another resume their influence as unelected functionaries.
Hezza was the first to go. He chucked his toys from the pram (and stormed out of a Cabinet meeting) because the PM would not accede to his plan that Westland should be taken over by a European consortium (no surprise that he wanted EEC countries to gain the business). To reinforce this he tried to get France, Germany, Italy (and the UK) to agree that no orders would be placed with Westland if they were taken over by US based Sikorsky.
Brittan packed it in a couple of weeks later because he had leaked a letter that had accused Hezza of inaccuracies in his campaign for a European takeover of the company.
All this happened in January 1986. After the customary period in purgatory (three years, in his case) Brittan was appointed a European Commissioner in 1989 eventually becoming Vice-President of the European Commission. He resigned along with the rest of the Commission in 1999 amid accusations of fraud against Jacques Santer and Édith Cresson. During his time as a Vice-President of the European Commission, one subsequently prominent member of his office was a certain Nick Clegg (later to hold the spare keys to No 10 for five years).
So, ten lucrative years with his snout in the trough. It is little wonder that these euromaniacs are so enthralled with the EU. It gives many of them a highly paid second career when they are eventually slung out from the upper echelons of domestic politics (or in the case of My Lord Kinnock, before they even entered it). It also goes some way to explaining why most of the UK electorate who voted in the referendum voted to leave. They don't like to see the people who have ceased to Lord it over them for one reason or another resume their influence as unelected functionaries.
Most of the younger people and politicians don't know what it was like pre EU. there was always a free movement of people. I travelled all over Europe by simply showing my passport, which was sometimes simply checked on the train. I travelled continually between London and Paris by just buying a ticket at the station either end.
We didn't need the blessing of the EU to move about then and we don't need it now.
We didn't need the blessing of the EU to move about then and we don't need it now.
Some of you have questioned my view that un-elected EU officials are far more likely to have my interests/wellbeing at heart, than the UK government.
The reason for this view is the rules/laws emanating from un-elected EU officials.
Un-elected EU officials have concern over my work-life balance, limiting the number of hours my employer can force me to work.
It is unthinkable that a UK government would give me such rights.
Un-elected EU officials have concern over my exposure to certain hazardous substances in manufactured goods.
It is unthinkable that a UK government would give me such protection.
I could go on to list many, many more laws giving me rights/protection – which I certainly would not have had we not been members of the EU over the last 45 or so years.
As time goes by, the EU will give its citizens more and more rights – it is very unlikely that any future UK government will say – ‘Oh that’s a good law, giving EU citizens more rights – we must enact legislation to give our citizens the same rights.
I believe the exact opposite is likely to happen, with future UK governments repealing laws giving UK citizens rights, that have been enjoyed for many years.
The reason for this view is the rules/laws emanating from un-elected EU officials.
Un-elected EU officials have concern over my work-life balance, limiting the number of hours my employer can force me to work.
It is unthinkable that a UK government would give me such rights.
Un-elected EU officials have concern over my exposure to certain hazardous substances in manufactured goods.
It is unthinkable that a UK government would give me such protection.
I could go on to list many, many more laws giving me rights/protection – which I certainly would not have had we not been members of the EU over the last 45 or so years.
As time goes by, the EU will give its citizens more and more rights – it is very unlikely that any future UK government will say – ‘Oh that’s a good law, giving EU citizens more rights – we must enact legislation to give our citizens the same rights.
I believe the exact opposite is likely to happen, with future UK governments repealing laws giving UK citizens rights, that have been enjoyed for many years.
“Un-elected EU officials have concern over my work-life balance, limiting the number of hours my employer can force me to work.”
No employer in the UK can force you to work any number of hours. They can ask you to work them; you can refuse; they can “let you go” if it does not suit them.
“Un-elected EU officials have concern over my exposure to certain hazardous substances in manufactured goods.”
Which substances do you have in mind which EU officials protect you from which the UK Parliament would not?
It’s a pity that you place more trust in EU officials than you do in your MPs. The problem is that whilst you may agree with some of the measures they impose, many people in the UK profoundly disagree with a lot of them. Furthermore, EU rules are framed with the interests of all 28 member nations. Rarely do those interests coincide with the best interests of the UK. In fact the UK is constantly and consistently outvoted in the EU “Parliament” (in inverted commas because it is not worthy of the name) whenever measures are proposed with which our MEPs do not agree. It’s not something upon which we will ever concur and I appreciate your explanation. I simply happen to believe that elected representatives in the Westminster Parliament have only to consider the best interests of the UK and its people. Unelected EU officials, apart from having the disadvantage of not being elected, cannot be so narrow in their view.
No employer in the UK can force you to work any number of hours. They can ask you to work them; you can refuse; they can “let you go” if it does not suit them.
“Un-elected EU officials have concern over my exposure to certain hazardous substances in manufactured goods.”
Which substances do you have in mind which EU officials protect you from which the UK Parliament would not?
It’s a pity that you place more trust in EU officials than you do in your MPs. The problem is that whilst you may agree with some of the measures they impose, many people in the UK profoundly disagree with a lot of them. Furthermore, EU rules are framed with the interests of all 28 member nations. Rarely do those interests coincide with the best interests of the UK. In fact the UK is constantly and consistently outvoted in the EU “Parliament” (in inverted commas because it is not worthy of the name) whenever measures are proposed with which our MEPs do not agree. It’s not something upon which we will ever concur and I appreciate your explanation. I simply happen to believe that elected representatives in the Westminster Parliament have only to consider the best interests of the UK and its people. Unelected EU officials, apart from having the disadvantage of not being elected, cannot be so narrow in their view.
NJ – Although it might be true that my employer could ‘let me go’, if it did not suit them that I would not work hours that they requested – but I would win the case at an employment tribunal for unfair dismissal.
RoHS and REACH Directives (and others) limit EU citizens exposure to hazardous substances – if such Directives were not to exist today and came into force post Brexit – there is no chance whatsoever a UK government would burden our manufacturers/suppliers with such laws protecting UK citizens.
RoHS and REACH Directives (and others) limit EU citizens exposure to hazardous substances – if such Directives were not to exist today and came into force post Brexit – there is no chance whatsoever a UK government would burden our manufacturers/suppliers with such laws protecting UK citizens.
Adding to NJ comment:-
‘No employer in the UK can force you to work any number of hours. They can ask you to work them; you can refuse; they can “let you go” if it does not suit them.’
The Working Time Directive permits individuals to opt out of the working limits, however certain workers (involved in safety critical activities) are prohibited from opting out.
If a company was found to be in breach of the Working Time Directive rules involving such workers, which resulted in the death of someone – the company and/or its directors could be facing manslaughter charges (just so you know).
‘No employer in the UK can force you to work any number of hours. They can ask you to work them; you can refuse; they can “let you go” if it does not suit them.’
The Working Time Directive permits individuals to opt out of the working limits, however certain workers (involved in safety critical activities) are prohibited from opting out.
If a company was found to be in breach of the Working Time Directive rules involving such workers, which resulted in the death of someone – the company and/or its directors could be facing manslaughter charges (just so you know).
Yes I do understand all of what you say, Hymie.
The fundamental difference between us (which will never be resolved) is that, regardless of the benefits of the individual measures you mention, the UK Parliament (which is the only institution over which the UK electorate has any control) has no control whatsoever over them. You've picked out a couple which you say are to your benefit and with which you agree. However, there are countless thousands of EU Directives, which must be absorbed into UK law, which are not in the UK's best interests and with which even you might disagree.
It's a question of who you want to control matters in the UK. I prefer the UK Parliament whilst you prefer to entrust that task to a bunch of unelected foreigners. Fortunately enough people saw it my way last June to see us free of the lunacy.
The fundamental difference between us (which will never be resolved) is that, regardless of the benefits of the individual measures you mention, the UK Parliament (which is the only institution over which the UK electorate has any control) has no control whatsoever over them. You've picked out a couple which you say are to your benefit and with which you agree. However, there are countless thousands of EU Directives, which must be absorbed into UK law, which are not in the UK's best interests and with which even you might disagree.
It's a question of who you want to control matters in the UK. I prefer the UK Parliament whilst you prefer to entrust that task to a bunch of unelected foreigners. Fortunately enough people saw it my way last June to see us free of the lunacy.
I recall when the Working Time Directive was to come into force; the UK government, UK employers (and the Daily Mail) were up in arms at the prospect of workers being given the right to refuse to work more than 48 hours a week.
The European Commission could not comprehend this objection – why would any country object to giving its citizens such rights?
To those living in the UK, it is all too clear why its citizens should not be given such rights – which are not in the interests of the rich and powerful.
The European Commission could not comprehend this objection – why would any country object to giving its citizens such rights?
To those living in the UK, it is all too clear why its citizens should not be given such rights – which are not in the interests of the rich and powerful.
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