Body & Soul1 min ago
The Labour Party - After The Election...
There seems to be a theory on twitter - the worse (seat wise) the Labour Party do the easier it will be to get rid of Corbin (yes I can spell it but choose not to). Could anyone explain it to me please? It was discussed by amongst others dan hodges
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Ric...after an Election, when a Party loses, its very common for that party to lose its Leader and get another one in.
It happened to Major, Hague, IDS, and Howard, as well as to Ed Milliband. But in Corbyn's case ( did I spell that right ? ) its likely that the Labour Party will elect him again, as they have done twice already.
The character assassination of Jeremy Corbyn knows no limits at present, and I can't see it ending any time soon.
That is the trouble with politics today....people seem to prefer to play the man, rather than the ball.
It happened to Major, Hague, IDS, and Howard, as well as to Ed Milliband. But in Corbyn's case ( did I spell that right ? ) its likely that the Labour Party will elect him again, as they have done twice already.
The character assassination of Jeremy Corbyn knows no limits at present, and I can't see it ending any time soon.
That is the trouble with politics today....people seem to prefer to play the man, rather than the ball.
//That is the trouble with politics today....people seem to prefer to play the man, rather than the ball. //
Probably because the man (led by his puppet master Red Len) has make the Labour Party unelectable. Not only has he failed the Party he has failed the Country as we need a strong opposition at this time.
Probably because the man (led by his puppet master Red Len) has make the Labour Party unelectable. Not only has he failed the Party he has failed the Country as we need a strong opposition at this time.
It makes no difference. Even if he leaves, Labour will be in the same position it was two years ago after Milliband resigned - full of mediocrities with no vision.
I know that Corbyn is extremely unpopular and AB is presently very focused on his deficiencies, but it's worth remembering why he originally won the leadership in the first place. He is a fairly moribund figure now but I remember when he visited Norwich in late 2015 (I happened to be visiting friends there), tickets to hear him speak sold out in minutes and people were clambering to get in (and no they were not party activists, this was before Momentum existed).
I don't think that would happen today as his claim to represent a "new kind of politics" has gone rather stale and even has a slightly negative connotation in the age of Trump. But he was truly the only candidate in that race with any kind of vision or vitality. His only competitors were Andy Burnham, Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper and later Owen Smith. All of these people are, I'm sorry to say, insubstantial nobodies with deficits of talent and imagination who did not even have the political skill necessary to unseat feeble old Jeremy Corbyn from the leadership.
That is Labour's only path backwards. That is what it is going back to if/when it doesn't win next month and Corbyn eventually goes. Furthermore it is hemorrhaging supporters and has lost virtually all of its heavyweights - and saving some nightmarish PR disaster for the Tories, it is about to lose a good deal more of its existing stock of MPs. I really think it might be finished.
I know that Corbyn is extremely unpopular and AB is presently very focused on his deficiencies, but it's worth remembering why he originally won the leadership in the first place. He is a fairly moribund figure now but I remember when he visited Norwich in late 2015 (I happened to be visiting friends there), tickets to hear him speak sold out in minutes and people were clambering to get in (and no they were not party activists, this was before Momentum existed).
I don't think that would happen today as his claim to represent a "new kind of politics" has gone rather stale and even has a slightly negative connotation in the age of Trump. But he was truly the only candidate in that race with any kind of vision or vitality. His only competitors were Andy Burnham, Liz Kendall, Yvette Cooper and later Owen Smith. All of these people are, I'm sorry to say, insubstantial nobodies with deficits of talent and imagination who did not even have the political skill necessary to unseat feeble old Jeremy Corbyn from the leadership.
That is Labour's only path backwards. That is what it is going back to if/when it doesn't win next month and Corbyn eventually goes. Furthermore it is hemorrhaging supporters and has lost virtually all of its heavyweights - and saving some nightmarish PR disaster for the Tories, it is about to lose a good deal more of its existing stock of MPs. I really think it might be finished.
I also like you mikey and i am appalled at the abuse you get on here sometimes, but I'm with ric on this. Corbyn is leading Labour to oblivion and its sad to see. Ed Miliband was unfairly reviled by all and sundry it seems, but in the case of Corbyn's reputation it's largely a DIY job. He was thrust into a job that he wasnt really expecting to get and Labour has been counting down to disaster since day one of his leadership if not well before. If he stays on as leader for any length of time it may well be because those in the party who opposed him before simply go elsewhere.
As I have said on here several times, Corbyn may not be popular with the Labour MP's but he is immensely popular with the ordinary party members who are the ones that elect the leader. If there was to be another Labour leadership election all that would happen is that Corbyn would be re elected with an even larger majority.
As the standing leader he gets an automatic nomination for any new leadership contest even if not one single labour MP supports him!
His position as Labour leader is unchallengeable! The only way he will go is if he resigns or dies.
As the standing leader he gets an automatic nomination for any new leadership contest even if not one single labour MP supports him!
His position as Labour leader is unchallengeable! The only way he will go is if he resigns or dies.
Itchy....the abuse I get doesn't bother me a jot. I ignore nastier comments and those that post them.
But we are where we are. I can't see the point in playing
"what if" games. We may end up with SDLP Mark2 out of all this, and we all know where that got us....the days of the 2 Davids, and other nonsense.
I still maintain that this new Labour Manifesto has a lot of good in it. The right-wingers on here won't agree, of course, but that is hardly surprising is it ?
So..... people can either vote for Labour policies, or abstain....either way, we will end up with the worst reactionary Tory Government that we have seen in a generation. A Government that will bring back fox hunting and Grammar Schools, amongst others.
But we are where we are. I can't see the point in playing
"what if" games. We may end up with SDLP Mark2 out of all this, and we all know where that got us....the days of the 2 Davids, and other nonsense.
I still maintain that this new Labour Manifesto has a lot of good in it. The right-wingers on here won't agree, of course, but that is hardly surprising is it ?
So..... people can either vote for Labour policies, or abstain....either way, we will end up with the worst reactionary Tory Government that we have seen in a generation. A Government that will bring back fox hunting and Grammar Schools, amongst others.
As the election gets nearer, it appears that Jeremy Corbyn becomes more wilfully determined to ignore it, and simply continue with his stated aim, which is to return the Labour Party to what he believes to be its roots and origins.
The difficulty with that notion, laudible though it is, is that the political and social spectrums in which politics live and works have changed beyond all recognition from the days when Labour could seriously expect to be elected on the policies that Mr Corbyn is offering.
To be a politician, you need a healthy dose of pragmatism, and an ability to adapt and change. It is easy to forget that in David Cameron's government, Teresa May was an opponent of Brexit, her position has adjusted in a way that will see her elected with a massive majority.
I believe that Mr Corbyn is cocking a snook at his detractors, safe in the knowledge that he is unmovable, and it really doesn't matter how fanciful his policies are because he will never have to implement them. He's not quite at the "I will give everyone a thousand pounds if they vote for me ..." stage, but he's getting there!
The difficulty with that notion, laudible though it is, is that the political and social spectrums in which politics live and works have changed beyond all recognition from the days when Labour could seriously expect to be elected on the policies that Mr Corbyn is offering.
To be a politician, you need a healthy dose of pragmatism, and an ability to adapt and change. It is easy to forget that in David Cameron's government, Teresa May was an opponent of Brexit, her position has adjusted in a way that will see her elected with a massive majority.
I believe that Mr Corbyn is cocking a snook at his detractors, safe in the knowledge that he is unmovable, and it really doesn't matter how fanciful his policies are because he will never have to implement them. He's not quite at the "I will give everyone a thousand pounds if they vote for me ..." stage, but he's getting there!
I'm not sure the party faithful would re-elect him. Even party faithful know he is a liability. If they do keep him after their predicted trouncing they will only have themselves to blame for having no credible Labour Party for a long while.
The only way they would get even a sniff of power would be if something catastrophic happened and they were the only ones left standing.... is that really the basis for a sound government?
The only way they would get even a sniff of power would be if something catastrophic happened and they were the only ones left standing.... is that really the basis for a sound government?
ichkeria
I also like you mikey and i am appalled at the abuse you get on here sometimes,
Posters do make me laugh when they claim this sort of nonsense.
It is Rowlocks and Drivel.
Corbyn is un-electable he could promise a 40 or 50% pay rise like his chum Maduro and the majority would still think he is an un-electable twonk.
I actually don't think people realise quite what a dangerous twonk he is ... luckily we would only find that out if he got in power.
I also like you mikey and i am appalled at the abuse you get on here sometimes,
Posters do make me laugh when they claim this sort of nonsense.
It is Rowlocks and Drivel.
Corbyn is un-electable he could promise a 40 or 50% pay rise like his chum Maduro and the majority would still think he is an un-electable twonk.
I actually don't think people realise quite what a dangerous twonk he is ... luckily we would only find that out if he got in power.
"Labour know he's not wanted and yet ....
What more do you need to know about Labour? That says it all really."
It could say that they care more about ideals than about cynically abandoning them to appeal to a shallow electorate.
Or, more accurately, it could say that core Labour activists are too blinkered to recognise that having ideals is brilliant but only if you can also be in a position to apply them. And if they genuinely think the first part of what I wrote, about a shallow electorate, then more fool them.
For myself I don't want to see Labour crash and burn, even if it does see Corbyn go and someone electable take his place, because I fear that Labour will have to sink to depths equivalent to the Liberal party in the 1920s for that to happen -- and it will take about as long for Labour to recover from that. But then, what opposition do we have then? As ymb says, we need a strong opposition; either the Tories split in two within a decade, or we will have the same government for many more cycles to come with no reasonable alternative on offer.
Well, we'll see what happens on June 8th. But I can't say I'm optimistic. Corbyn has to recognise that he's unelectable, and that he's leading Labour in the wrong direction; or he has to defy predictions in a way that no-one before (or since) has ever managed.
What more do you need to know about Labour? That says it all really."
It could say that they care more about ideals than about cynically abandoning them to appeal to a shallow electorate.
Or, more accurately, it could say that core Labour activists are too blinkered to recognise that having ideals is brilliant but only if you can also be in a position to apply them. And if they genuinely think the first part of what I wrote, about a shallow electorate, then more fool them.
For myself I don't want to see Labour crash and burn, even if it does see Corbyn go and someone electable take his place, because I fear that Labour will have to sink to depths equivalent to the Liberal party in the 1920s for that to happen -- and it will take about as long for Labour to recover from that. But then, what opposition do we have then? As ymb says, we need a strong opposition; either the Tories split in two within a decade, or we will have the same government for many more cycles to come with no reasonable alternative on offer.
Well, we'll see what happens on June 8th. But I can't say I'm optimistic. Corbyn has to recognise that he's unelectable, and that he's leading Labour in the wrong direction; or he has to defy predictions in a way that no-one before (or since) has ever managed.
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