Hillsborough Disaster: Charges Decision Due

[mikey4444]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-merseyside-40419819

I can't get to sleep tonight, so I thought I would post this thread, ready for the morning, as I feel it will be the Topic of the Day.

[Islay]

Mikey will you please stop calling it a bribe!! whilst I abhor the DUP the money received will hopefully help NI a great deal! We have been so under investated in for decades now, we have women having to travel to England because there is no option for some gynie operations here!!

[mikey4444]

Islay....choose whatever word you like. But Wales would also have liked an extra £2bn as well.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad that NI is getting some help, but if Mrs May can find the Magic Money Tree now, why couldn't she find it before ?

[ToraToraTora]

you seem to have derailed your own thread mikey, PMSL!

[mikey4444]

TTT...( 12:21).....no, because the Inquest didn't find them guilty, as you very well know.

Just to remind you....the Inquest ruled that the fans had been unlawfully killed. You are not happy with that result, as you have made perfectly clear in the past, but it is the case, nevertheless.

[Islay]

At least Wales NHS can afford to fund operations and what about all the money the steel industry got!!

[mikey4444]

TTT...I haven't derailed it at all ....there is still plenty of opportunity for people to respond....don't forget, it wasn't me that first brought up the subject of bribes !

[goodgoalie]

Surely all the fans who didn't have tickets who rushed through the wrongly-opened gate (clearly seen on the CCTV footage) must, to some extent, be responsible for the disaster that ensued? Has anyone ever tried to identify them?

[ToraToraTora]

it's not a logical result, it was brow beaten at the nth enquiry. The police made mistakes, they covered it up (prosecute them for that) but they did not set out to cause harm they are guilty, only of trying to control a difficult situation that was at least partly brought about by ticketless fans. They therefore must be partially to blame so if you are going to prosecute anyone they must be included. This is just the last phase of a which hunt. Finally they have got their figure if hate so they can blame a face rather than the true cause. quite disgusting.

[ToraToraTora]

goodgoalie: heresy my friend!

[mikey4444]

GG.....you could perhaps benefit from reading about the proceeds of the 2nd Inquest. ::::

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_disaster

[mikey4444]

TTT...if you keep that head of yours buried in the sand, you will run a very great risk of sand in the eyes and ears.

We have debated this issue many times on AB, and I am quite happy to take the issue of blame with the outcome of the Inquest.

[goodgoalie]

Mikey, are you really saying that no ticketless fans rushed into the ground when the gate was wrongly opened?

[ChillDoubt]

As has been said so many times, not really in the public interest, let it go.
If Liverpool fans want justice I trust that those from Heysel will retrospectively be pursued and prosecuted with the same vigour.....

[mikey4444]

Full Crown Prosecution Service statement on Hillsborough ::::

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-40431180/crown-prosecution-service-statement-on-hillsborough

Sue Hemmings, CPS, has asked that due to sub judice rules, that no more comment is to be made, and I, for one, will abide by that.

[ToraToraTora]

"TTT...if you keep that head of yours buried in the sand, you will run a very great risk of sand in the eyes and ears. " - works both ways me old china! The outcome is not logical, I will never accept that ticketless fans had no part in this disaster.

[youngmafbog]

Neither will I, it was quite clear from video footage.

This is without doubt a witch hunt, although those coppers that falsified evidence should clearly be prosecuted.

[Gladeian]

I understand from other press sources that the initial proceedings will start at Warrington Magistrates' Court which then suggests that the Crown Court hearing will be in the in the same area. I really do think that a fair hearing can only be heard by a Crown Court not in the Liverpool/North West area of England. The pool of jurors is likely to be too influenced by local pressures (as I suspect was the verdict of the inquest jury). The Central Criminal Court is, I suggest, the only fair venue for this trial.

[anotheoldgit]

/// Just to remind you....the Inquest ruled that the fans had been unlawfully killed. ///

That well be so, but who hands on actually killed them, it would seem the stampede of fans.

Some perhaps made the wrong decision at the time, but who except in foresight could have seen what actually followed?

[Peter Pedant]

at the time I think Mrs T thought it was inconceivable the police would lie to HER ! She had written on the files of the Oirish Bombers - "do we have to go thro all this again?" because she thought they were obviously guilty and not obviously innocent

in 2004 a High Court Judge found that changing statements was lawful practice - subjective comments were excluded and witness statements "I was at stand 2 and the police were wandering around as though they didnt know what they were doing" was edited to
"I was at stand 2".
The judge at the time basically said - so what ?

so I am not sure what the upshot of this is gonna be

For the Oirish Bombers ( Reade Schedule - was that Brum or Guildford) the magistrate Bartels refused to send the indictment onto the Crown Court as it was such a longtime ago and the police couldnt get a fair trial after 20 years. Also subject to an appeal where the court said - yeah we agree with that

In calmer times ( 1950s but it coudda been the 1850s ) a chancery judge observed that a wrongly decided case wrecked three generations. Hillsborough it is the victims their parents and their children.

[Peter Pedant]

// but who except in foresight could have seen what actually followed?// or something like that

the leading case is R v Adomako- foresight is not required - if someone else said 'dont do that sir ...' and he did it anyway - he doesnt get off by saying he really didnt think ..... ( also guilty if he had said "oh *** lets do it anyway".
also guilty if he should have seen the consequences but thro negligence and didnt
and finally guilty if the negligence was so crass it deserved unishment

[ That for slow readers was a comment on a case called R v Adomako where four conditions could found a finding by the jury of manslaughter by gross negligence. [from memory]]