The 'final Solution'

[scooping]

Just watching some TV and I don't understand why, when the Nazis attained power early in 1933, they waited until 1942 to carry out the mass extermination of the Jews. Absolutely no axe to grind, just puzzled.

[naomi24]

Mikey, who derailed the thread? As far as I can see everyone here is talking about 'The Final Solution'.

[mikey4444]

PP....I agree about the film but the book is entirely different....well worth the effort.

[naomi24]

Mikey, //SunnyDave....I would give up if I were you.....we all know that Naomi is "never wrong" //

Oh, I am wrong sometimes - but not this time. Wouldn't you agree - you having read so many books on the subject?

[jim360]

"I mention it here only to disassociate myself from such a pathetic reading of history."

I still don't see why this part of my post was overlooked. I hope you appreciate the point I was making. If Livingstone was, in fact, even more wrong than I gave him credit for then so much the better.

[Peter Pedant]

I think the final solution dates from the Wansee conference
which was called after the obvious failure of the shooting program 'in the east'

In 1944 my father was told in a POW camp by a German guard "yes I agree we made mistakes in the east"

[Peter Pedant]

// I still don't see why this part of my post was overlooked.//jimbo

you should not despair dear Jim that the usual subjects havent read the whole of your post before blaaarting

you should rejoice they read ANY part of it before letting off .......

[naomi24]

Jim, I didn’t overlook any part of your post. I commented on the bit that, for important clarification, required comment. That’s all.

[jim360]

Well, anyway. The reasons the Germans didn't get around to a full-on "final solution" until 1942 were certainly not because for the decade previously they looked for other methods out of the goodness of their hearts. Anyone looking at Hitler's actions in the 1930s in particular has to read them very cynically indeed (and after about 1942, if not before, his actions took on something closer to those of the deranged than the cold and calculating).

The entire programme was broader than Jews, as sp's link says, anyway. It remains one of the more chilling parts of history to read of the Nazis plans for almost the entirety of Eastern Europe. They weren't even subtle about their intentions to systematically, and completely, exterminate the local population as far as was possible. What noises they did make about other, less brutal alternatives were just a front.

[gulliver1]

Mikey, 19.33, have to agree with you, how the hell can the spokeswoman for the [ African artillery] ever ever be wrong.

[youngmafbog]

Nothing to say on the OP as usual I see Guili, just jump in for a dig at another poster?

As far as the final solution we will never truly know what was going on in Adolfs head. So much evil swirling round in there.

[gulliver1]

YMB, just like the post at 19.17, POT and Kettle again.

[Peter Pedant]

// for important clarification,//
oh god I love the unintentionally hilarious comments you get on AB

// As far as the final solution we will never truly know what was going on in Adolfs head.// the documents were carefully sanitised- the ones in the east were just locked up and can be seen to this day - -- -

[in one documentary about the Lwow ghetto a foreign passerby says to the camera - "that building over there - Jerry Springer went into it" - but being foreign - he spoke in Furrin ( Ukrainian i think ) so all the documents are still there. damp and mouldering and in German]

[naomi24]

Gulliver at 20:07, rambling again.

Peter Pedant, // for important clarification,//
//oh god I love the unintentionally hilarious comments you get on AB//

You find humour in that - and you don’t think clarification is important? Really? The Jews wouldn't agree with you.

[jourdain2]

As a book for genuine information, may I suggest Arek Hersch's 'A Detail of History'. Daughter lent me this after meeting the author last year (he gives school talks). He survived 2 Concentration Camps.

[mikey4444]

A book that I read a few years ago, had an important effect on me ::::::

"I escaped from Auschwitz " by Rudolf Vrba.

It reads like a thriller, which essentially is what it is.
It was privately published but its worth seeking out a second hand copy. It was completely unputdownable.

[mikey4444]

By the way, ignore anything written by David Irving, that well known Holocaust denier !

[youngmafbog]

Mickey, you should never ignore things said by people you disagree with that is how evil is able to flourish. Read it, understand it (as best as possible) then argue factually against it.

[mikey4444]

YMB......Irving is a completely discredited holocaust denier and a charlatan to boot.

By all means read his rubbish, but it won't help anybody to understand why the country that produced Goethe, Beethoven and Martin Luther, also went on to murder millions of people.

It also won't help to understand how so many of the citizens of Germany, and other European countries, willingly cooperated with the Nazi Party in such an enthusiastic manner.

[naomi24]

I agree with YMB.

[mikey4444]

YMB....I think that perhaps people should read the lies and rubbish in Irvings books after all, but then go on to read any of the other books that have been mentioned in this thread, to get the real truth.