Music1 min ago
Why Is This A Gimmick?
Surely a finite date and clarity of when galvanises the effort made to sort things out??
http://
This has been on the news website for ages so if it has already been posted ... sorry.
http://
This has been on the news website for ages so if it has already been posted ... sorry.
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cassa333
I am not just blaming the UK side. It was obvious from the day of the vote, that the EU would not make the leaving easy.
At the start of this process we agreed to a timetable. Basically the leaving agreement has to be finalised by October 2018.
When that is done, we then go on to work out our post brexit trade agreement.
Obviously if we miss October 2018, then that reduces the time to agree a trade deal. If we have no deal by 29.3.17, then we will leave without any plan for future trade in place.
500 days have been wasted, and there are500 days to go. Failure is not an option, so the British Government needs to up its game.
I am not just blaming the UK side. It was obvious from the day of the vote, that the EU would not make the leaving easy.
At the start of this process we agreed to a timetable. Basically the leaving agreement has to be finalised by October 2018.
When that is done, we then go on to work out our post brexit trade agreement.
Obviously if we miss October 2018, then that reduces the time to agree a trade deal. If we have no deal by 29.3.17, then we will leave without any plan for future trade in place.
500 days have been wasted, and there are500 days to go. Failure is not an option, so the British Government needs to up its game.
I find it amazing that people think these "here today gone tomorrow" politicians capable of negotiating complex matters such as trade barriers, tariffs etc. - particularly in the few hours they spend "over there". I suspect the reality is that they know little more than we do on the real progress of negotiations, which will be going full time by professionals on both sides who know exactly what they are doing and who throw the amateurs a bone to chew on for the short time they have their highly publicised meetings.
Gromit, if you are not just blaming the UK it never comes across in your posts. It appears to be that you constantly criticise the UK efforts and attribute every difficulty to the Our team. Every set back is our fault. Every milestone not reached is our fault. You appear to believe every word that comes from the EU and not our own UK team. You seem to twist every difficulty into a knock at us.
So much so that sometimes I wonder if you are not Junker using an alias.
There has been little progress because we rather stupidly agreed to the EU demand for linear talks that can't progress until each line has been agreed in progression.
The sticking point is the first line. Pay us big time.
Even if we were stupid enough to pay What they want (not necessarily an accurate figure based on reality but what the EU so desperately needs us to pay) there is no guarantee that their offer for a trade deal will be worth it. We could pay billions to get out and find our trade deal fee is simply not worth it.
We should make our final offer and walk away. We then have the rest of the time to talk trade with whoever we can regardless of who they are.
If the EU want to talk trade they are welcome to come back to the table with reasonable offers.
Contrary to popular remain belief the 'cliff edge' and 'hard Brexit' are just words to frighten.
So much so that sometimes I wonder if you are not Junker using an alias.
There has been little progress because we rather stupidly agreed to the EU demand for linear talks that can't progress until each line has been agreed in progression.
The sticking point is the first line. Pay us big time.
Even if we were stupid enough to pay What they want (not necessarily an accurate figure based on reality but what the EU so desperately needs us to pay) there is no guarantee that their offer for a trade deal will be worth it. We could pay billions to get out and find our trade deal fee is simply not worth it.
We should make our final offer and walk away. We then have the rest of the time to talk trade with whoever we can regardless of who they are.
If the EU want to talk trade they are welcome to come back to the table with reasonable offers.
Contrary to popular remain belief the 'cliff edge' and 'hard Brexit' are just words to frighten.
Is that the same Dyson who built a company from nothing who still employs the big end of the workforce in the U.K.?
Actually Dyson vacuums are pretty expensive so how much more expensive would they be if we built them here?
Actually wage costs are a very good reason so many manufacturing jobs have gone abroad over the years.
We the consumer have a choice. Cheap or British made.
Actually Dyson vacuums are pretty expensive so how much more expensive would they be if we built them here?
Actually wage costs are a very good reason so many manufacturing jobs have gone abroad over the years.
We the consumer have a choice. Cheap or British made.
We have offered €20 million and the EU have asked for €60 million. If we genuinely want a deal, everyone knows that the final figure will be somewhere between the two. (Ie, both sides will have to move closer to the other, until a compromise figure is reached),
As I said earlier, anyone who thinks we can pay nothing, and still do trade with the EU afterwards, is living in a fantasy.
As I said earlier, anyone who thinks we can pay nothing, and still do trade with the EU afterwards, is living in a fantasy.
We have offered. It was rejected, we offered again. It was rejected.
As I said and others before me negotiation is a two way street but the EU seem to be stuck at one end not using it.
If trade is dependant on how much we pay before we negotiate a trade deal then we are dead in the water.
But you still haven't addressed my initial comment at 1.15 why do you constantly blame the UK when the EU is the other player in this event? It seems you are advocating paying as much as possible before we even reach the table let alone the front door!
As I said and others before me negotiation is a two way street but the EU seem to be stuck at one end not using it.
If trade is dependant on how much we pay before we negotiate a trade deal then we are dead in the water.
But you still haven't addressed my initial comment at 1.15 why do you constantly blame the UK when the EU is the other player in this event? It seems you are advocating paying as much as possible before we even reach the table let alone the front door!
John Redwood is encouraging people to take their money out of Britain, and invest it elsewhere ::::
https:/
Could Redwood be one of those "Vichy British" that TTT is always banging on about ?
https:/
Could Redwood be one of those "Vichy British" that TTT is always banging on about ?
"As I said earlier, anyone who thinks we can pay nothing, and still do trade with the EU afterwards, is living in a fantasy."
Incredible as it may seem, the USA (and many other countries) "do trade with the EU" (and very nicely in most cases). How much do they pay the EU for the privilege? Answers on a postcard, please.
Incredible as it may seem, the USA (and many other countries) "do trade with the EU" (and very nicely in most cases). How much do they pay the EU for the privilege? Answers on a postcard, please.
It's obviously not a gimmick. It ties the date in UK law regardless whether the EU want to vote for an extension. Deadlines are good for focusing the mind. Otherwise some will and procrastinate thinking they can delay things forever. With this in UK law the EU (and the UK parliament for that matter) will know they can't mess about, add an extension, then mess about, add an extension, then mess about, add an extension, then mess about, add an extension, then ...
Perhaps this passing into law will wake up industry/commerce in the EU, and get serious pressure put on the EU "negotiators"/delayers to talk about trade and come to an agreement.
Perhaps this passing into law will wake up industry/commerce in the EU, and get serious pressure put on the EU "negotiators"/delayers to talk about trade and come to an agreement.
It's obviously not a gimmick. It ties the date in UK law regardless whether the EU want to vote for an extension. Deadlines are good for focusing the mind. Otherwise some will prevaricate and procrastinate thinking they can delay things forever. With this in UK law the EU (and the UK parliament for that matter) will know they can't mess about, add an extension, then mess about, add an extension, then mess about, add an extension, then mess about, add an extension, then ...
Perhaps this passing into law will wake up industry/commerce in the EU, and get serious pressure put on the EU "negotiators"/delayers to talk about trade and come to an agreement.
Perhaps this passing into law will wake up industry/commerce in the EU, and get serious pressure put on the EU "negotiators"/delayers to talk about trade and come to an agreement.
Just what Insaid at the beginning of the thread I think.
Galvanise the mind to get the job done. There should be no need for any extra time to exit.
If it takes longer to put a trade deal together then I suspect it will be becausenthe EU want to punish us in some way.
We won't curle up and die without antradevdeal. We will do the British thing. Drink tea and carry on regardless.
Galvanise the mind to get the job done. There should be no need for any extra time to exit.
If it takes longer to put a trade deal together then I suspect it will be becausenthe EU want to punish us in some way.
We won't curle up and die without antradevdeal. We will do the British thing. Drink tea and carry on regardless.
We left on a principle ("Take back control"), not on trade. Now we're trying to negotiate a trade deal, while the EU wants to negotiate on principle. Hardly surprising we're not getting anywhere.
hey have not the slightest interest in negotiating on trade because they are going to continue trading freely with each other within the single market after we're gone. We're the ones with the big trade problem, not them.
> So lay off the treason, vichy, collaborator nonsense, because you are just making yourself look silly.
Not only that. The ones that have done the real damage to the UK are the ones who voted to leave. Now some are moaning a) that the EU want to negotiate on the very thing that caused them to vote leave - principle - when they want to negotiate on trade and b) that anyone who is trying to mitigate the damage on trade is a traitor, when the real act of self-harm on trade was voting to leave in the first place.
hey have not the slightest interest in negotiating on trade because they are going to continue trading freely with each other within the single market after we're gone. We're the ones with the big trade problem, not them.
> So lay off the treason, vichy, collaborator nonsense, because you are just making yourself look silly.
Not only that. The ones that have done the real damage to the UK are the ones who voted to leave. Now some are moaning a) that the EU want to negotiate on the very thing that caused them to vote leave - principle - when they want to negotiate on trade and b) that anyone who is trying to mitigate the damage on trade is a traitor, when the real act of self-harm on trade was voting to leave in the first place.
Ah but the EU have principles that only apply to themselves.
We don't actually need a trade deal with the EU. Goods and services will still tootle around the world, including the EU as it always has. There may well just be a 10% fee across the board that hits us and them.
I simply cannot fathom why people want to stay shackled to the EU, contributing more and more for less and less return. What is it you fear so much? Is it because you are either young and have not lived in a free UK or can't remember freedom? Perhaps it is Stockholm Syndrome!
Although I believe we owe a lot less than the EU are demanding we should be gracious and give them €50b and be done with it. We can't be accused of not honouring our commitments then can we.
If they want a trade deal that is advantageous only to them then they can go hike up a mountain.
Once we leave we should not be propping up this laviathon of waste. We have our own projects that require our money.
We don't actually need a trade deal with the EU. Goods and services will still tootle around the world, including the EU as it always has. There may well just be a 10% fee across the board that hits us and them.
I simply cannot fathom why people want to stay shackled to the EU, contributing more and more for less and less return. What is it you fear so much? Is it because you are either young and have not lived in a free UK or can't remember freedom? Perhaps it is Stockholm Syndrome!
Although I believe we owe a lot less than the EU are demanding we should be gracious and give them €50b and be done with it. We can't be accused of not honouring our commitments then can we.
If they want a trade deal that is advantageous only to them then they can go hike up a mountain.
Once we leave we should not be propping up this laviathon of waste. We have our own projects that require our money.
I will try again. There are two main issues: trade and principle.
We left on principle. Take back control. Sovereign parliament. UK courts. Immigration.
The people who wanted to remain fell broadly into two camps. Those who wanted to remain based on trade and the impact on the economy, and those who wanted to remain based on principle. I would think most remainers were in the first camp, the "traders".
What have all the talks been about? Trade. Is it any wonder then that the "traders" are so unhappy? It looks likely that there will be no trade deal and we will leave on WTO terms. You state that "There may well just be a 10% fee across the board that hits us and them" but it will hit us harder than them. Why? Because they can continue to trade with each other and there's very little that the UK supplies into the EU that could not be supplied by another member state, such as Germany or France, especially if that was tariff-free and already complied with all EU regulations, unlike ours.
That's just trade with the EU. The rest of world is a different matter. The EU already has trade deals set up. We have none.
Fearful? No. Just getting on with it in the full knowledge that the excrement is en route to the rotating blade.
We left on principle. Take back control. Sovereign parliament. UK courts. Immigration.
The people who wanted to remain fell broadly into two camps. Those who wanted to remain based on trade and the impact on the economy, and those who wanted to remain based on principle. I would think most remainers were in the first camp, the "traders".
What have all the talks been about? Trade. Is it any wonder then that the "traders" are so unhappy? It looks likely that there will be no trade deal and we will leave on WTO terms. You state that "There may well just be a 10% fee across the board that hits us and them" but it will hit us harder than them. Why? Because they can continue to trade with each other and there's very little that the UK supplies into the EU that could not be supplied by another member state, such as Germany or France, especially if that was tariff-free and already complied with all EU regulations, unlike ours.
That's just trade with the EU. The rest of world is a different matter. The EU already has trade deals set up. We have none.
Fearful? No. Just getting on with it in the full knowledge that the excrement is en route to the rotating blade.
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