Looks Like The E U Are Bricking It...

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/896868/brexit-eu-single-market-business-finance-uk-theresa-may-europe
"There are reportedly fears on the EU side that a post-Brexit British economy, freed from the burden of EU regulation, will be able to suck jobs and investment out of Europe." - pity the VB over here don't have the same confidence in Britain that the EUSSR seem to have.

[-Talbot-]

Gromit NJ
No one is claimng the bus won it.
They are saying the central message of the Leave campaign was based on a lie. You may not have been taken in by it, but I expect plenty were.



You're absolutely right Gromit, some thick people believed it, not me though ... however, I was rather worried about WW3 starting because of Brexit.

[ToraToraTora]

Talbot: "They are saying the central message of the Leave campaign was based on a lie" - I assume you mean those that have a problem with English language and grammar.

[Jackdaw33]

I'd give up if I were you, TTT. The plain fact is that Brexit won, the Remainers lost and we are out come hell or high water. Let them moan till the cows come home, it isn't going to make a scrap of difference.

[-Talbot-]

You have to laugh or maybe face-palm at some of these replies ...


TTT https://media.giphy.com/media/6yRVg0HWzgS88/giphy.gif

[Ellipsis]

> The bus advert to me was done simply to illustrate how much of taxpayers' dosh was being handed over

The advert on the bus was:

"We send the EU £350 million a week
let’s fund our NHS instead. Vote Leave."

So the bus advert to me was in two parts.

The first part, "We send the EU £350 million a week", was to do with handing over dosh, but it was not done simply to illustrate how much of taxpayers' dosh was being handed over. It was smarter than that. In itself it was a lie, since £350 million a week was not sent. It was £156 million a week. Why lie over this? Simple. If you're arguing over the numbers, both of which are eye-wateringly large, then you're not arguing over the core issue which is "What do we get in return?"

The second part, "let's fund our NHS instead. Vote Leave." asks for permission for "us", through voting Leave, to spend the money instead on funding the NHS.

If it was nothing to do with the NHS, and if it was telling the truth on how much was spent, then the slogan would simply state "We send the EU £156 million a week. Let’s not. Vote Leave." But that wouldn't have worked as well, for the reasons above. That statement might have been the starting point, but after the spin doctors were done with it, it would have turned into what they actually ran with. The lie.

[Gromit]

Even Faraged fessed up on Referendum day that the £350million to the NHS was not true. He generously called it a ‘mistake’ but he rigorously disowned it.

[Togo]

That isn't a face palm Talbot....this is. I like to think that "some members" who missed the bus are doing it. :))

• . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
. . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
. . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . .facepalm.... . . . . . ”:,
. . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\,
. . . . . . . . . /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,}
. . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`^`.}
. . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:”. . . ./
. . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./
. . . . . . . /__.(. . .“~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./
. . . . . . /(_. . ”~,_. . . ..“~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/
. . . .. .{.._$;_. . .”=,_. . . .“-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~”; /. .. .}
. . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .”=-._. . .“;,,./`. . /” . . . ./. .. ../
. . . .. . .\`~,. . ..“~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../
. . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-”
. . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..\. . /\
. . . . . . \`~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....\,__
,,_. . . . . }.>-._\. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-,
. .. `=~-,_\_. . . `\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `:,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `\. . . . . . ..__
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--

[Jackdaw33]

I fail to understand why those in the Remain camp keep harping on about it. As Julius Caesar said, when he crossed the Rubicon with his army (which was tantamount to a declaration of war), "Alea iacta est" (the die is cast). In other words there is no going back and the Remainers need to realise that we are going out.

[jourdain2]

Precvisely, Jackdaw. I was naïve enough to assume that after the Referendum result the country would bind together to make a success of the situation - which is what happens after elections....... or used to.

[jourdain2]

'Precisely' ^^^^ and no, we're back to normal vino levels!

[ToraToraTora]

COBRAS elipsis we pay £350m and they give us some back for EU projects.

"The second part, "let's fund our NHS instead. Vote Leave." asks for permission for "us", through voting Leave, to spend the money instead on funding the NHS. " - wow that's what I call spin, my admiration for your spinology is boundless! However in English asking permission would not use the suggestive "let's" it would use something more like "can we..." - good spin though!

[Ellipsis]

Oh, "let us" is so different to "can we" ... who's spinning? Which is the stronger request, if any?

And no, we do not pay £350M per week. Our rebate is deducted at source, not handed over and paid back.

[ToraToraTora]

"And no, we do not pay £350M per week. Our rebate is deducted at source, not handed over and paid back." - semantics, we have to pay £350m in total, we are told what to do with the bit we don;t actually hand over it amounts to the same thing.

[Gromit]

// we have to pay £350m in total //

Keep digging. Our rebate (thrashed out by Mrs T) is deducted by the Treasury straightaway before any payment is made. Which reduces the bill by £4billion. The real bill is half of the £350 million a week. It could be argued that that is still too much, but you are not arguing that.

[Jackdaw33]

More to the point is that the rebate can only be spent on what the EU tell us to; it couldn't be spent on the NHS even if we wanted.

[New Judge]

There’s little point in arguing over it too much:

https://fullfact.org/europe/our-eu-membership-fee-55-million/

It seems in 2016 our bill before our generous “rebate” was £17bn (£327m per week).

Thanks to the EU's munificence in allowing our rebate, we actually handed over £13.1bn to the EU (£252m per week). As an aside our rebate should be greater. Mr Blair forfeited a chunk of it in exchange for an assurance that the Common Agricultural Policy - which discriminates heftily against the UK - would be reformed. Mr Blair left office about ten years ago. The CAP reform? Well you guess.

After the EU had kindly refunded some of that money (to be spent only as directed on “EU funded projects”) the net amount paid was £8.6bn (£165m per week).

So it could indeed be argued that sum is too much. I would argue about £8.6bn too much. But as I said, there's little point in arguing.

[THECORBYLOON]

We weren't paying £350m each week to the EU. As the government has pledged to continue paying most if not all the amounts the EU had been paying to the UK after Brexit (albeit for a limited period), there won't be a spare £350m each week knocking about.

Other than that, the statements on the bus, posters and billboards were spot on.

[vetuste_ennemi]

How weary stale and flat are all the usages of this world (and some AB threads).

[vetuste_ennemi]

Is there a missing "unprofitable" in my last post?