Nurses Leaving The Nhs

[Ric.ror]

Where are they going though?

[bednobs]

doing other jobs, care homes, private sector, non-nursing jobs

[woofgang]

Abroad

[cassa333]

Some are leaving for personal reasons. Some are leaving because the NHS is so unwieldy they can't cope. Some are leaving because the NHS is a bastion for that catchall disease 'empire building. Some are leaving because they believe project fear. Some are leaving because work visas expire. Some are leaving because it doesn't pay as much as contracting back to the NHS privately i.e.: agency

[Ric.ror]

It would be interesting to see the figures where they are going

[Ric.ror]

Cassa - thanks for your answer but I was just interested in where not why they were going
No agenda - just wondered

[mikey4444]

I have been listening to this on "Today" this morning.

It seems that stress is a major cause. My own niece, who is a highly qualified Nurse, has had long periods off work.

[cassa333]

Interesting question perhaps but not as interesting on how to make nursing a career choice again.

They upped the anti so much by increasing the entry level qualifications but failed utterly to appreciate it was a way for those less academically astute to get on the career ladder from the bottom up. It therefore lost its appeal to the masses.

Even though they upped qualification levels (therefore blocking entry to a large number of potential nurses) and have tried desperately to make nurses pseudo doctors etc etc they have in fact made nursing less attractive.

[murraymints]

what Cassa said, practical experience and hands on training combined with a caring manner makes a nurse not A levels... too heavy a work load not enough hands on deck is leading to nurses leaving I think

[emmie]

private sector perhaps, all that money wasted on training, shocking.

[NoMercy]

Some of the Nurses I know have left to take up managerial positions or gone to Research Management posts. It oftentimes largely boils down to pay.

[MallyJ]

Some are leaving to go home as they are very worried about their futures here ....... I have had this discussion with several of the people who have been working on/with me and my health.

[bednobs]

i also think cassa has it about nurses leaving to work for the agencies, where they can get much better money, much less responsibility and a choice of hours/shifts they want. It's still the case that for a lot of NHS nursing jobs it's mandatory to do a stint on nights every 8 weeks or so and many people don't want to do that (or at least they want to be better paid to do it). I left nursing due to health issues when i was in my early 30s and have since worked in managerial/admin type roles within the NHS. I currently work with a bunch of nurses and out of 13 nurses, five are employed via an agency

[ummmm]

My sons MIL left nursing quite recently. It was stress.

[cassa333]

Project fear has a lot to answer for it seems.

Although probably another discussion, I firmly believe that the NHS needs radical reform to make it fit for purpose not throwing a ton more money at it.

Strip the NHS bare and see what is left.

I would have GP services, A&E, mental health services, old age care, birth and pregnancy issues, children's health and prescriptions free at point of use as well as eye tests and dental checkups.

Everything else would be insurance based.

[EDDIE51]

Many of them are leaving the NHS to join private nursing agencies. Once in the agency they go back to the NHS as agency nurses and get paid more for the same work. Often even on the same ward of the same hospital where they worked as NHS staff.
I was in an NHS hospital and got to know one of the nurses . One day she went off duty only to come back an hour later but in a different uniform. I asked her why she had another uniform,she told me
'' I'm doing an extra shift for the agency now''
She did agency work at the same hospital and the same ward as an agency nurse on her days off and holidays, or as in my case did extra shifts for the agency. She said a most of her colleagues did the same. It means they get extra income from agency work but keep their NHS pension. This was a few years back, I assume that the private agencies now have better pension schemes so more staff choose to permanently change to an agency and get better pay for the same work.

[cassa333]

Unless all the NHS nurses are part time someone should be looking at the working time directive. Because it isn't the responsibility of the employer to ensure they do not go over the max hours whether with them or another employer. Or it used to be when I was managing people. Perhaps they have made the rules simpler or something.

[Old_Geezer]

Maybe the role needs revising to return to a nursing care situation that calls for limited stress from decision making, and matching the lower rates paid for caring roles. And then the doctor system needs to take over more and be paid in accordance to the responsibilities involved.

I've no experience of the medical profession but suspect this blurring of roles has led to blurring of expectations and dissatisfaction with both the respect and pay that lagged the job description changes. One doesn't need to be a genius or want responsibility for decision making, and consequently demand higher pay, for caring; one needs compassion and a desire to help.

There must be plenty who would consider such a role as suiting them, either in the medium term or permanently. And so the NHS ought not need to be using expensive agencies to fill staff deficits.

[Jackdaw33]

I have been in hospital a few times last year. What surprised me was the 12/13 hour shifts they had to work. Incidentally the majority of them are not qualified nurses but nursing assistants (care workers). They are limited as to the tasks they can perform. Out of about 20 staff on the ward I was on only three were proper nurses.

[ummmm]

I was in hospital not too long ago and the care assistants were just as good as the nurses.

[Patsy33]

I'm not surprised! Disgusting the way they are used and abused. So so sad...