Strands #290 “You Say You Want A...
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Universities Could Face Fines Over Free Speech Curbs
//Jo Johnson said "no-platforming", the policy of banning controversial speakers, is stifling debate.... From next April, a new regulator - the Office for Students - will have the power to fine universities that fail to uphold free speech....Universities UK has said it will not allow legitimate debate to be stifled.//
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//In 2016, nearly two-thirds of university students believed the National Union of Students was right to have a "no-platform" policy.//
^That I find shocking. Something so hard fought for abandoned so readily. Truly a ‘snowflake’ generation. The phrase ‘Be careful what you wish for’ springs to mind.
Your views?
http://
//In 2016, nearly two-thirds of university students believed the National Union of Students was right to have a "no-platform" policy.//
^That I find shocking. Something so hard fought for abandoned so readily. Truly a ‘snowflake’ generation. The phrase ‘Be careful what you wish for’ springs to mind.
Your views?
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//This is a generation who work zero contract hours, a generation where some leave university with a £30,000 debt, a generation who work two or three jobs to be able to save for a place to live. A generation who don't have the luxury of a 'job for life' as previous generations did, a generation who are inheriting a world which has been royally screwed up by previous generations... //
What utter nonsense. Jobs for life have not been around for decades and as for being royally screwed up by previous generations you are being very disingenuous to those that gave their lives so these snowflakes can spout their rubbish.
To save up for my house, my girl friend and I lived in absolute squalor among drugs dealers and takers living on Big Soup. We had no furniture when moved in nor any new fridge cooker or washing machine, a far cry from what youngsters expect and get today.
What utter nonsense. Jobs for life have not been around for decades and as for being royally screwed up by previous generations you are being very disingenuous to those that gave their lives so these snowflakes can spout their rubbish.
To save up for my house, my girl friend and I lived in absolute squalor among drugs dealers and takers living on Big Soup. We had no furniture when moved in nor any new fridge cooker or washing machine, a far cry from what youngsters expect and get today.
you are being very disingenuous to those that gave their lives
I htink you're skipping a generation there, ymb. Those who gave their lives did so in order that the postwar baby boom generation could (eventually, it took some time) live in comfort. It's the boomers who sired the current younger generation, who have it far harder than their parents did.
I htink you're skipping a generation there, ymb. Those who gave their lives did so in order that the postwar baby boom generation could (eventually, it took some time) live in comfort. It's the boomers who sired the current younger generation, who have it far harder than their parents did.
sp, In an effort to keep this thread on track what do the things you mentioned at 19:37 have to do with the two-thirds of students who can’t bear to face, and need to be protected from, opinions that are contrary to their own?
Pixie, since you appear to agree with SP, the question is open to you too.
Pixie, since you appear to agree with SP, the question is open to you too.
I'd treat the two-thirds figure with a hefty pinch of salt. Students are bombarded by e-mails constantly which ask them to participate in umpteen surveys, and the overwhelming majority of students do not get involved with student politics - and are in fact alienated by it. If you don't believe me, check the turnout numbers for elections to your nearest student union - 5% is astonishingly high and practically unheard of. And the people who tend to run (and vote) tend to be an incestuous clique who all know each other.
The image of "Marxist professors indoctrinating students" is something of a panto cliché. More often than not, the kinds of silly policies Johnson is talking about are usually instigated by student unions (see above) or by lazy administrators who want some shorthand way of showing that they are "in touch" with students in the hope that it will affect satisfaction rankings and net the university money.
The Office for Students is a good idea in principle, but the biggest problem with universities is not free speech. The biggest problem with modern universities is that they are expected to deal with tens of thousands of students, and they are expected to act like businesses rather than educational institutions.
This means that you get hundreds of thousands of students going to university because their parents, teachers and mentors tell them that they need to, pay through the nose and accrue enormous debt for the privilege, and in return get courses that are seriously lacking in content, operating at an absolute minimum of cost, and only really teach how to pass a given assessment rather than actual knowledge or skills. This is disgraceful and exploitative behaviour by universities at the expense of people they are supposed to be teaching, who (through no fault of their own) are usually not equipped to realise what is happening to them before it is too late.
So, not a bad idea. But the "free speech" issue is something of a red herring for the real problem of commercialisation, the cult of "customer satisfaction" over education, and profiteering behaviour by universities.
The image of "Marxist professors indoctrinating students" is something of a panto cliché. More often than not, the kinds of silly policies Johnson is talking about are usually instigated by student unions (see above) or by lazy administrators who want some shorthand way of showing that they are "in touch" with students in the hope that it will affect satisfaction rankings and net the university money.
The Office for Students is a good idea in principle, but the biggest problem with universities is not free speech. The biggest problem with modern universities is that they are expected to deal with tens of thousands of students, and they are expected to act like businesses rather than educational institutions.
This means that you get hundreds of thousands of students going to university because their parents, teachers and mentors tell them that they need to, pay through the nose and accrue enormous debt for the privilege, and in return get courses that are seriously lacking in content, operating at an absolute minimum of cost, and only really teach how to pass a given assessment rather than actual knowledge or skills. This is disgraceful and exploitative behaviour by universities at the expense of people they are supposed to be teaching, who (through no fault of their own) are usually not equipped to realise what is happening to them before it is too late.
So, not a bad idea. But the "free speech" issue is something of a red herring for the real problem of commercialisation, the cult of "customer satisfaction" over education, and profiteering behaviour by universities.
naomi24
The two thirds figure was obtained by an online poll which was 'self selecting' (ie. it was not randomised and weighted in any way, like say - a poll carried out by Ipsos Mori).
1,001 people responded to the poll.
There is no way to verify whether those 1,001 people were students.
So we should not extrapolate that figure.
This is not a snowflake generation.
The two thirds figure was obtained by an online poll which was 'self selecting' (ie. it was not randomised and weighted in any way, like say - a poll carried out by Ipsos Mori).
1,001 people responded to the poll.
There is no way to verify whether those 1,001 people were students.
So we should not extrapolate that figure.
This is not a snowflake generation.
youngmafbog
You wrote:
//as for being royally screwed up by previous generations you are being very disingenuous to those that gave their lives so these snowflakes can spout their rubbish.//
No not previous 'generations'. I'm talking specifically about the Baby Boomers. They are the generation after the one that deservedly have the title of 'The Best Generation'.
The Best Generation was the one that lives through, and fought in WWII.
The next one, the Boomers, they were the one that spent the 70s and 80s bringing the country to its knees with industrial disputes at the the drop of a hat.
You wrote:
//as for being royally screwed up by previous generations you are being very disingenuous to those that gave their lives so these snowflakes can spout their rubbish.//
No not previous 'generations'. I'm talking specifically about the Baby Boomers. They are the generation after the one that deservedly have the title of 'The Best Generation'.
The Best Generation was the one that lives through, and fought in WWII.
The next one, the Boomers, they were the one that spent the 70s and 80s bringing the country to its knees with industrial disputes at the the drop of a hat.
Kromo, you'll be delighted to hear I agree with every word you say.
When I mentioned Marxist professors 'egging them on', it was because I had misread something in the BBC link.
There is something rotten, imo, in higher education today. Practically no-one leaves WITHOUT a degree. It's possible (according to the S. Times) to do no exams, no coursework, attend no lectures and still obtain a degree.
Darest one suggest a return to the 'good old days'?
When I mentioned Marxist professors 'egging them on', it was because I had misread something in the BBC link.
There is something rotten, imo, in higher education today. Practically no-one leaves WITHOUT a degree. It's possible (according to the S. Times) to do no exams, no coursework, attend no lectures and still obtain a degree.
Darest one suggest a return to the 'good old days'?
No we're not.
That's just the prism of newspaper and the online community.
We don't all hang on every word that someone on Twitter issues.
In the real world, we're all still telling jokes, and making inappropriate remarks at office parties.
Too many people seem to think that what happens in newspapers and online is real life.
It ain't.
If that's real life for you - get some new friends.
Less uptight friends.
That's just the prism of newspaper and the online community.
We don't all hang on every word that someone on Twitter issues.
In the real world, we're all still telling jokes, and making inappropriate remarks at office parties.
Too many people seem to think that what happens in newspapers and online is real life.
It ain't.
If that's real life for you - get some new friends.
Less uptight friends.
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