ChatterBank3 mins ago
Oh Dear. It's All Down To ..
Old white racists looking backwards not forwards to blame for Brexit.
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It does frustrate me so when the 'great and the good' (in their eyes at any rate) tell us why we did what we did.
If this is the crap they are spouting, they have no idea why people voted leave. It is just their own justification and propaganda to make vulnerable people think they are wrong for the wrong reasons.
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It does frustrate me so when the 'great and the good' (in their eyes at any rate) tell us why we did what we did.
If this is the crap they are spouting, they have no idea why people voted leave. It is just their own justification and propaganda to make vulnerable people think they are wrong for the wrong reasons.
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The Good Doctor Cable needs to be put out to grass.
He has no idea why any particular section of the electorate voted the way they did and it is presumptuous in the extreme of him to believe that he does. Never, in all the reasons put forward for Leavers' "stupidity" is it considered that those voting to leave might, just might, be looking to restore the country's sovereignty. This has been signed away, in true EU salami-style, by successive UK governments over the past 40 years. Younger voters don't know this because, in the main, all they've been used to is the shambolic situation that currently prevails.
Far from "crushing the hopes and aspirations" of those younger people, in ten years time when the EU has suffered another half dozen or so of its regular crises they will thank older voters for having the nous to extract them from an imploding mess.
He has no idea why any particular section of the electorate voted the way they did and it is presumptuous in the extreme of him to believe that he does. Never, in all the reasons put forward for Leavers' "stupidity" is it considered that those voting to leave might, just might, be looking to restore the country's sovereignty. This has been signed away, in true EU salami-style, by successive UK governments over the past 40 years. Younger voters don't know this because, in the main, all they've been used to is the shambolic situation that currently prevails.
Far from "crushing the hopes and aspirations" of those younger people, in ten years time when the EU has suffered another half dozen or so of its regular crises they will thank older voters for having the nous to extract them from an imploding mess.
It sometimes seems unreal that there was a time when I had respect for the guy and he seemed to be 'on the ball'. It must be years now during which time he seems to have spouted nothing but gibberish, and my respect for his stance fell through the floor. I can only assume that he must have just got lucky one time, and his true (lack of) abilities shone through ever since. As indicated by this BBC article.
But I guess when one has no valid argument in support on one's belief a common tactic is simply to denigrate those with opposing views. It's not as if he can be unaware of the reasons to get out from foreign control. Or if he really isn't aware then all the more wonder he actually leads a political party. Was he the best the Liberals could find within their ranks to be their figurehead ? Or did no one else want the poisoned chalice ?
But I guess when one has no valid argument in support on one's belief a common tactic is simply to denigrate those with opposing views. It's not as if he can be unaware of the reasons to get out from foreign control. Or if he really isn't aware then all the more wonder he actually leads a political party. Was he the best the Liberals could find within their ranks to be their figurehead ? Or did no one else want the poisoned chalice ?
Anneasquith, there is always a wee bit of truth in things people say. There were afterall over 17 million people who voted leave so some may well have voted because of outdated thinking of long dead empires.
In the same way that not all Remainers voted remain simply because they didn't want to wait in the passport line at the airport when they have their two weeks in Majorca and Benidorm.
In the same way that not all Remainers voted remain simply because they didn't want to wait in the passport line at the airport when they have their two weeks in Majorca and Benidorm.
Based on my own completely unscientific contact with Brexiteers (young and old) here on AB and in the 'real world', I do get the strong impression that they tend to have a very hostile attitude towards modernity (in fact I doubt most of them would consider this a criticism).
Much as I like and admire Vince Cable, though, I just think he's wrong on this. He describes changing his mind about the necessity of implementing Brexit when he saw the figures on voting by age - but I don't see why this should matter. We vote with the electorate we have at any given time - any referendum, any election, is by its nature a snapshot of the electorate on the precise day that the ballots are cast. Now is a very peculiar time to go disputing that, especially as we all know these kinds of acrobatics would never have taken place in the case of a 48-52 Remain result.
I also think Cable (and others) who argue for a second referendum or total reversal of Brexit are very short-sighted. Much as we can try to quantify the probable economic damage of Brexit, there are other kinds of traumas a society can suffer which are not as easily quantifiable. If we suddenly reverse this decision now - or call another referendum which "so happens" to overturn the first, we risk exposing the UK to those less visible dangers. Collapse of civil society, total disappearance of faith that UK governing institutions are accountable to the people at all, and a ruling elite that has the precedent of suppressing a popular democratic decision.
Nobody can give you a percentage or a number for what those things can do to a society. They're not tangible or really measurable. But it's fairly obvious that over time, they can lead a country - any country - down very, very dark paths indeed. Never, ever tell yourself that things can't get worse - things can always get worse. Much as I respect him, I think Cable is playing with fire.
Much as I like and admire Vince Cable, though, I just think he's wrong on this. He describes changing his mind about the necessity of implementing Brexit when he saw the figures on voting by age - but I don't see why this should matter. We vote with the electorate we have at any given time - any referendum, any election, is by its nature a snapshot of the electorate on the precise day that the ballots are cast. Now is a very peculiar time to go disputing that, especially as we all know these kinds of acrobatics would never have taken place in the case of a 48-52 Remain result.
I also think Cable (and others) who argue for a second referendum or total reversal of Brexit are very short-sighted. Much as we can try to quantify the probable economic damage of Brexit, there are other kinds of traumas a society can suffer which are not as easily quantifiable. If we suddenly reverse this decision now - or call another referendum which "so happens" to overturn the first, we risk exposing the UK to those less visible dangers. Collapse of civil society, total disappearance of faith that UK governing institutions are accountable to the people at all, and a ruling elite that has the precedent of suppressing a popular democratic decision.
Nobody can give you a percentage or a number for what those things can do to a society. They're not tangible or really measurable. But it's fairly obvious that over time, they can lead a country - any country - down very, very dark paths indeed. Never, ever tell yourself that things can't get worse - things can always get worse. Much as I respect him, I think Cable is playing with fire.
While I'm happy to agree with NJ that "[Vince Cable] has no idea why any particular section of the electorate voted the way they did and it is presumptuous in the extreme of him to believe that he does", it then seems to me to be presumptuous in the extreme for NJ to go on to explain why *he* thinks the electorate voted the way it did.
It's presumably a given that the 17 million or so Leave voters did so for multiple reasons. Cable will (sadly) have been right for some voters, whether they care to admit it or not; NJ will be right for, I would hope, rather a lot more, but both will have missed reasons all the same.
The best data available at the time, from Lord Ashcroft's Polls, suggests that NJ's reason (sovereignty) was the leading cause to about half of Leave voters, but control over immigration was the second biggest issue (about a third). Even then it's a stretch to suggest that control of immigration automatically equates to "nostalgia for White Britain", or however Cable put it exactly, but that there was a mix of reasons is still clearly intuitively correct.
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It's presumably a given that the 17 million or so Leave voters did so for multiple reasons. Cable will (sadly) have been right for some voters, whether they care to admit it or not; NJ will be right for, I would hope, rather a lot more, but both will have missed reasons all the same.
The best data available at the time, from Lord Ashcroft's Polls, suggests that NJ's reason (sovereignty) was the leading cause to about half of Leave voters, but control over immigration was the second biggest issue (about a third). Even then it's a stretch to suggest that control of immigration automatically equates to "nostalgia for White Britain", or however Cable put it exactly, but that there was a mix of reasons is still clearly intuitively correct.
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It's exactly the kind of lazy thinking that contributed to the failure of the Remain campaign.
Let's not bother to address any of the valid concerns about the EU membership or point out it's benefits, let's simply accuse anyone that's euro-sceptic of being a racist old git that still wishes we had an empire. That'll be enough.
Err, no it won't. In fact it'll be completely counter-productive.
Let's not bother to address any of the valid concerns about the EU membership or point out it's benefits, let's simply accuse anyone that's euro-sceptic of being a racist old git that still wishes we had an empire. That'll be enough.
Err, no it won't. In fact it'll be completely counter-productive.
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