Crosswords5 mins ago
Oh Now She’S Uncompromising. Should’Ve Done That With The Eu At The Start
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As was suspected, a sell out and no Brexit.
Well done. We will be a broken country in no time because she has given the EU exactly what they wanted. Free trade and alignment. But got chuff all back in financial services.
Woohoo the remainers have ruined the country. Bet their glad now.
As was suspected, a sell out and no Brexit.
Well done. We will be a broken country in no time because she has given the EU exactly what they wanted. Free trade and alignment. But got chuff all back in financial services.
Woohoo the remainers have ruined the country. Bet their glad now.
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There cannot be a deal with the EU they simply dont want one
really? for the last year or more I've been hearing that the EU desperately wants access to the huge and vibrant British market, that Mercedes will collapse if Brits have to pay more for their cars and so on. And now it seems they don't, after all?
The thing is, remainers knew this all along. That the EU is a much bigger market than Britain, and would therefore hold the whip hand in any negotiations, has always been obvious, including before the referendum; but people somehow kidded themselves otherwise.
really? for the last year or more I've been hearing that the EU desperately wants access to the huge and vibrant British market, that Mercedes will collapse if Brits have to pay more for their cars and so on. And now it seems they don't, after all?
The thing is, remainers knew this all along. That the EU is a much bigger market than Britain, and would therefore hold the whip hand in any negotiations, has always been obvious, including before the referendum; but people somehow kidded themselves otherwise.
Jim, //Whatever your opinion of the EU, 40 years of membership have had a profound impact on the country and how things are run.//
You can say that again! And how!
//BB's post clearly *was* ignoring reality by proposing a line of action that was, at every step, impossible or illegal//
That’s incorrect. There's nothing impossible or illegal in Bigbad's suggestion. She is absolutely spot on. We should have, as she said, fulfilled our obligations and waved goodbye. Brexit should have meant Brexit – but those in opposition are making damn sure that it doesn’t and never will. The question was ‘Remain’ or ‘Leave’ – there was no suggestion of ‘Leave with conditions because the Remainers have limited vision and are incapable of contemplating a future detached from EU control.
You can say that again! And how!
//BB's post clearly *was* ignoring reality by proposing a line of action that was, at every step, impossible or illegal//
That’s incorrect. There's nothing impossible or illegal in Bigbad's suggestion. She is absolutely spot on. We should have, as she said, fulfilled our obligations and waved goodbye. Brexit should have meant Brexit – but those in opposition are making damn sure that it doesn’t and never will. The question was ‘Remain’ or ‘Leave’ – there was no suggestion of ‘Leave with conditions because the Remainers have limited vision and are incapable of contemplating a future detached from EU control.
If May's offer is anything like that reported in the media then there is no point in continuing negotiations. If accepted it clearly isn't leaving, since we'd still be conforming to EU demands, and the public will have been betrayed by a government that will have already shown disdain for democracy by putting the offer together in the first place. If rejected there can surely be no further capitulation.
If the hope was that the EU will reject and we then choose to just leave, as would be the only remaining honourable option, then the EU could change their mind and offer to accept the abominable suggestion the UK government themselves put forward, and which was initially rejected, after all; and any government bluff would then have been called. It'd have to either agree to their own suggestion, or reject their own suggestion, claiming it's too late and off the table.
No idea what the leaver MPs agreed on this for. But the issue won't be sorted down this path. Negotiations seem to have failed so maybe the best thing now is to simply get on with the 'out' part and sort out the 'better than WTO' trade agreements afterwards.
If the hope was that the EU will reject and we then choose to just leave, as would be the only remaining honourable option, then the EU could change their mind and offer to accept the abominable suggestion the UK government themselves put forward, and which was initially rejected, after all; and any government bluff would then have been called. It'd have to either agree to their own suggestion, or reject their own suggestion, claiming it's too late and off the table.
No idea what the leaver MPs agreed on this for. But the issue won't be sorted down this path. Negotiations seem to have failed so maybe the best thing now is to simply get on with the 'out' part and sort out the 'better than WTO' trade agreements afterwards.
"Brexit means Brexit” said the Maybot.
“A thing should always mean itself,” said Alice, “and I suppose for those people who do know what it means, or think they do, the affirmation that it means itself is reassuring.”
She paused, “but to those that don’t know what it means and see others fighting over its meaning, can you please say what it means, or should mean?”
“But it does mean Brexit,” insisted the Maybot.
“A thing should always mean itself,” said Alice, “and I suppose for those people who do know what it means, or think they do, the affirmation that it means itself is reassuring.”
She paused, “but to those that don’t know what it means and see others fighting over its meaning, can you please say what it means, or should mean?”
“But it does mean Brexit,” insisted the Maybot.
A triumph for Remainers (whom I support) but a disaster for democracy (which I also support).
On balance I would rather the latter prevailed. If you're daft enough to "go to the country" for individual policies, you MUST abide by the answers, however unpalatable, because that's the very foundation of democracy.
It would be interesting to have a referendum (although I abhor the very concept) stating "Is this what you wanted ?".
On balance I would rather the latter prevailed. If you're daft enough to "go to the country" for individual policies, you MUST abide by the answers, however unpalatable, because that's the very foundation of democracy.
It would be interesting to have a referendum (although I abhor the very concept) stating "Is this what you wanted ?".
"That’s incorrect. There's nothing impossible or illegal in Bigbad's suggestion."
Now you are just plain wrong -- Triggering Article 50 on June 24th, as has been clearly established at every level of the legal system, would have been unconstitutional (ie, illegal). Since that is at the heart of BB's suggestion, the rest also follows as impossible. This is not controversial, it's a simple fact. We couldn't have just walked away and left, however much you might wish that it were so.
Now you are just plain wrong -- Triggering Article 50 on June 24th, as has been clearly established at every level of the legal system, would have been unconstitutional (ie, illegal). Since that is at the heart of BB's suggestion, the rest also follows as impossible. This is not controversial, it's a simple fact. We couldn't have just walked away and left, however much you might wish that it were so.
canary, the referendum just asked In or Out. The people voted Out, and on whatever day it's due to happen Britain will indeed no longer be an EU member. Democracy is satisfied.
Of course, most people will have subsidiary expectations about whether Britain can continue trading with the EU and on what terms (and on other issues too); but that wasn't asked and they can't expect the outcome to suit them. Whatever the outcome is, it will suit some and not others. That's all part of democracy too, just as election results don't suit everyone. Those who don't get what they want will just have to live with it.
Of course, most people will have subsidiary expectations about whether Britain can continue trading with the EU and on what terms (and on other issues too); but that wasn't asked and they can't expect the outcome to suit them. Whatever the outcome is, it will suit some and not others. That's all part of democracy too, just as election results don't suit everyone. Those who don't get what they want will just have to live with it.
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