Oh Dear Collaborator May, What Have You Done?

[youngmafbog]

Judging by the polls she is once again trying to wreck the Conservative Party and this time doing it remarkably well.

Seems I am not the only one who has said they will never vote Tory while that woman is still in charge.

I predict either a generation in the wilderness or total annihilation. Treason May will certainly go down in the history books, already I suspect the most hated PM after His Tonyness.

There has never been a better time to form a new party (or parties).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5955369/Labour-opens-biggest-poll-lead-election-Tory-ratings-tumble.html

[ichkeria]

The problem is that on the one hand the dream of the hard brexiters is dead as a door nail - and is that was the perceived dream of the 52% then tough frankly. But as things currently stand everyone can see that the current plan is going to lead to an unsatisfactory outcome too.
The only real way forward is for Britain to adopt a model of relationship with the EU that preserves our economic interests in services - the most important sector - as well as manufacturing.
Why do I say the dream of the hard brexiters is dead? Listen to Trump for example: he’s actually right that Britain won’t get a deal with the US under the current plan, but what sort of a trade deal do you think we’ll get with the US in a hard Brexit world? A deal between two unequal economies that’s what and most likely a British one that’s even further behind the US than it is now. They’ll call the shore and we’ll stuff chlorinated chicken and for knows what else where the sun don’t shine.
You’ll say ah but UKIP are ‘surging in the polls’
But that’s the brexiters deserting the Tories and it only goes so far. And in any case, what election?
Fear of Jeremy Corbyn will ensure there’ll be no such thing for years unless a few Tory or DUP MPs die off quickly ...

[naomi24]

ichkeria, //The problem is that on the one hand the dream of the hard brexiters is dead as a door nail//

But that’s the point…. it shouldn’t be.

// - and is that was the perceived dream of the 52% then tough frankly.//

So ‘frankly’ stuff democracy because it’s not what the minority want. Shameful.

[Kromovaracun]

We have no way of knowing that ultra-hard Brexit was the will of the 52%.

[naomi24]

Yes, you do. The question was very simple. 'Leave' or 'Remain'?

[Kromovaracun]

And, as we've seen, 'Leave' means different things to different people. The organiser of Vote Leave in my local area was in favour of becoming an EEA member instead because (in his opinion) he felt it would give manufacturers more flexibility than being an EU member.

As I've pointed out before, if we're not a member state - then we meet the most basic definition of 'Leaving' possible. I understand that's not sufficient to you, or some other posters on AB - but the simple fact is we have no way whatsoever of knowing how representative that is.

[naomi24]

Remainers squiggling and squirming around their disingenuous rhetoric may come up with any excuses they feel fit the bill. The fact remains (no pun intended) that because they are not willing to accept the will of the majority, the winners are the losers – and in a country that prides itself on, and is founded upon, the principle of democracy that is absolutely shameful. No two ways about it. ‘Not me Guv’ isn’t working, Krom. You’re as culpable as the rest. From Mrs May down, traitors to democracy all.

[Kromovaracun]

That's an assertion, naomi, not a fact.

[naomi24]

No, Krom, it's a fact. Your refusal to accept the legitimate result of a democratic vote renders it a fact.

[Old_Geezer]

Claiming something often doesn't make it so. In fact the WTO option is about as "hard" as it gets, and seems more likely as time goes on. Plus, if we don't get out in reality, the issue won't go away.

[Kromovaracun]

You know what? It looks very much to me like for a while Answerbank is just going to be full of angry finger-jabbing at people who have the temerity to hold alternate opinions.

Not sure I need that in my life right now, to be quite honest. And I've spent more time on here than I'm usually comfortable doing the past few days.

I'm heading off for a bit. I'll be back when the temperature has cooled a bit. Y'all go ahead and get this out of your system.

[Kromovaracun]

// Your refusal to accept the legitimate result of a democratic vote renders it a fact./

Case in point. Never said that - but don't let troublesome things like the fact/opinion distinction stop you believing it.

Bye, now.

[jno]

Answerbank is just going to be full of angry finger-jabbing

lol, has it been anything else for the past year?

People voted for golden elephants and have suddenly awoken to the face that the government doesn't have any.

[Old_Geezer]

On the vontrary, people simply voted to get out of a cotrolling group and have suddenly awoken to the fact that the government isn't doing it and some of the public approve because they didn't want the majority decision to go ahead.

[Old_Geezer]

CONTRARY !!!!!

[Old_Geezer]

CONTROLLING !!!!

[ichkeria]

"//The problem is that on the one hand the dream of the hard brexiters is dead as a door nail//

But that’s the point…. it shouldn’t be.

Hmm, well that is almost like saying 10 should not be the square root of 100, or 28-1 should not = 27
There are various reasons why it is now clear why the so called "hard" option is a non-starter. In fairness a few were touched on in the campaign and dismissed as "project fear" , but others (such as the border with the republic) were largely ignored.
Maybe the 2016 referendum will be looked back on as the Cnut referendum. Cnut of course, legend has it, wanted to show the people he couldn't turn back the tide. David Cameron (who many I know have always thought of as a bit of a Cnut) had a take on that were he'd show that the people would not command the sea to turn back any more than he could. But lo and behold the people voted for the tide to stay out (while their cheer leaders scarpered inland pdq).
And, also lo and behold, the tide DID come in ...

[vetuste_ennemi]

I voted Leave because (I'm quoting the Farage campaign slogan) I wanted "my country back", not because I expected (or wanted) another 10 billion pounds an hour (or ws it minute?) to be spent on the NHS.

Getting "my country back" is not sending a letter of resignation to Brussels as one poster (who knows better) will have it. Neither is creating a new category of membership and renaming the UK as "category 2 - vassal" rather than "full" member as other posters (who also know better) will have it.

[naomi24]

Krom. //Case in point. Never said that - but don't let troublesome things like the fact/opinion distinction stop you believing it. //

But you are saying that. If you weren’t you would accept the legitimate result – but you don’t. You want us to keep one foot – and an arm – in fact all if possible - in the door.

Off you go. Bye bye.

ichkeria, //that is almost like saying 10 should not be the square root of 100, or 28-1 should not = 27//

What absolute rot! You said all you needed to say at 08:08 with
//that was the perceived dream of the 52% then tough frankly//

Utter disdain for the electorate and for democracy.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Then we have this:

//...like saying 10 should not be the square root of 100...There are various reasons why it is now clear why the so called "hard" option is a non-starter//

This baseless "non-starter" assertion about real world economies has the certainty of maths, does it?

We leave the EU and its customs union, stop paying the subs, and no longer accept its laws and their adjudication by its court.

There is nothing, repeat nothing[i stopping us doing this.

Which is not the same as saying that we want to lose the advantages of free trade with the EU, that we don't want to co-operate on matters of mutual interest, far less that we want to be on bad terms with our neighbours nd all the other xenophobe, Little Englander crap The only difficulty in our future relationship with the EU is the first bit because free trade within the Union requires full regulatory alignment and the system of punitive external tariffs.

Given the fact that both the UK [i]and[i] the EU will suffer some undesirable economic consequences from a UK withdrawal from the free market it would seem that both parties should be exploring ways to maintain [i]as closely as possible] the current free trade arrangements under the new order, and planning to avoid major disruption to our existing trade.

The fact that the EU (which stands to lose more from Brexit than us) has adopted a stance seemingly based on malice and a desire to humiliate the UK is the strongest evidence yet that Out was the right choice.

[Old_Geezer]

EU membership has nothing in common with tides, which are a natural physical phenomena due to free moving water and our moon's/sun's gravity. There's little that's natural about EU and membership of it. It's all about some humans wanting control of others and some of those others wanting self control instead, once more.