Uk 'won't Block Us Death Penalty For Is Beatles'

[naomi24]

//Two members of a terror cell can face US justice after the UK dropped its requirement for assurances they would not be executed if found guilty, according to a report….. A letter sent by home secretary Sajid Javid to US attorney general Jeff Sessions says the UK would demand no "assurances" that the pair will not be executed, contrary to previous policy…..The home secretary's letter reveals his fears that British laws may not be enough for a successful prosecution and that US terrorism laws will be more effective.//

https://news.sky.com/story/uk-wont-block-death-penalty-for-is-beatles-11445947

Getting tough on terrorists is good news – but an acknowledgement that British laws may not be enough for a successful prosecution says a lot. Time for a change in the law then?

[fiction-factory]

If that's aimed at NoMercy/Lady CG, please leave it, Minkyme. This is getting to be a tiresome spat. (Apologies AOG if you think I'm picking on the wrong ones again)

[fiction-factory]

Okay. Post removed. Looks like it was just an unfortuunate misposting onto the wrong thread at the wrong time. Sorry

[dannyk13]

It was posted on the wrong thread FF.

[naomi24]

As fascinating at this spat may be to some, would anyone mind if we got back to the subject?

[fiction-factory]

Agreed.

[sandyRoe]

I was serious with my earlier comment. It's said hard cases make bad law. If we facilitate the extradition of these two to the USA where they might eventually face the death penalty we would be setting a precedent.

[andres]

I don't care how many virgins they imagine they will meet just get rid! They are murdering swine and do not deserve to live.I don't believe in filling up the prisons with lifers. We need the room nowadays for all the other criminals .

[Peter Pedant]

o god the beebz standard of reporting can be described as dire. The so called legal correspondents have no idea what the law is

The two Brit beatles who survive have had their british citizenship withdrawn - you can only do this if they have a nationality to go to. They must have.
You can extradite foreign nationals to London if you wish to.

Terrorism in english law is international - doesnt have to be Britain - BUT there are problems of witnesses. Why indict somone in London if they did it in Idlib - there are not witnesses in London, as they are all in Idlib.

The Brits have 4 y intelligence on the men - and they previously implied that they wouldnt give it up if there was a death sentence in play. Now they (we) say it doesnt matter.

we dont even mind if they do it in Guantanamo - which is outside American Law as a military camp ( which is the direct opposite of the law in England - the Queen's writ runs in military camps as every where else in the Queens Peace)

er and that is about it

[Peter Pedant]

// If we facilitate the extradition of these two to the USA where they might eventually face the death penalty we would be setting a precedent.//

that is the problem about the really crippy standard of beeb reporting - it is the trading of intelligence
The americans want it - even tho the rules of admissibility are stricter than we have

as far as extradition is concerned we are lissive/permissive ( sit to one side and let it happen)

remember this is Javidz opinion and he and the Home Office have no say in bringing prosecutions - police and CPS do

[Peter Pedant]

The beeb have had two correspondents so far on this and they vie with each other to make a greater dogs dinner of the event

[naomi24]

sandyRoe, //If we facilitate the extradition of these two to the USA where they might eventually face the death penalty we would be setting a precedent. //

I'm happy with that.

[hereIam]

ff - very impressed with your facepalm - excellent.

Yes, these thick thugs think that they are martyrs and they welcome death, so let them die, on boy what a shock they are in for !!!

[-Talbot-]

I think we should get behind the muslim groups campaigning for the adoption of Sharia law and grant them their request in respect of the death penalty and the removal of limbs of criminals- it would make our streets a safer place-

[-Talbot-]

I do hope you are jesting, spungle

[ChillDoubt]

If we facilitate the extradition of these two to the USA where they might eventually face the death penalty we would be setting a precedent.
——————-
Given that they effectively renounced British citizenship the day they left to join IS I’m more than happy to seen them handed over to the Yanks, where they’ll doubtless get the sort of justice that befits their heinous acts.
Maybe they’ll even get a bit of ‘tactical baptism’ in the process too, fingers crossed.

[Peter Pedant]

// Given that they effectively renounced British citizenship the day they left to join IS I’m more than happy to seen them handed over to the Yanks,//

those who dont study history are condemned to repeat it. This defence was tried in Lord Haw-Haw's case 1946 - that he had taken German nationality and so Treason against his liege Lord George was a non-starter. Held he was still a Brit as he had travelled outward on a Brit Passport.
Withdrawal of passport / nationality I have covered above so long as you er have two

https://www.brightlinks.org/knowledge-bank/law-and-politics/features-and-resources/famous-cases-william-joyces-treason-trial

[Gromit]

Sorry, not had time to read all the previous comments.

I have always been against the death penalty, so I should be really angered by Javid’s/HMGov’s new position. - But I am not.

The IS Beatles were/are excessively evil. Their method of killing was barbarous and the theatre of it disgusting. If they end up suffering a similar fate to that they inflicted on others, I will not shed a tear.

Even though I do not support the death penalty, they deserve what is coming their way.

[jno]

having read the links I'm rather baffled.

The reason for handing them over to the US is apparently nothing to do with the death penalty (though hat might normally be a reason for not handing them over, but that the UK seems to think that UK law is inadequate to deal with the offences.

So why doesn't the UK home secretary ... whoever he is ... change the UK law, instead of expecting the US to do his work for him?

[Gromit]

Crimes are usually prosecuted in the country they are committed, but that isn’t really feasable in this case.
The crimes were against British and UK citizens so there is a desire that justice be done by both countries.

The US has far more expertise at rendition than we do. Whisking foreign nationals off to a secret location to be interrogated (and probably tortured) is second nature to them, but would not be acceptable here.

[jno]

Jack Straw might go along with it

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/jun/28/what-did-jack-straw-know-about-the-uks-role-in-torture-and-rendition