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Brexit - Does Anyone Here Have A Solution For The Irish Border Problem?
So far our politicians have failed to find a workable solution.
Answers
No and I don't think one will be found which will render Brexit totally unworkable.
17:54 Wed 19th Sep 2018
Sorry, Roman, but I'm afraid that I must add myself to those who say it is the EU's problem. We have a perfectly workable system at the moment and (since the amount of trade is small) it is very possible to continue fairly freely with just electronic checks and agreements with local firms and people who need to cross the border daily. That's the position of the UK as I understand it - the EU is the party squealing about borders, so it is up to them to sort it out if they don't like the proposed arrangement.
Not only is it not entirely the UK government's fault that the agreement has been put in jeopardy, it isn't any fault of the UK government whatsoever. Separate border agreements can not dominate to prevent a country pull out from being in thrall to an external power group. The implied suggestion is ridiculous. Furthermore the UK government isn't the one wanting to change the present border; it's happy for it to continue as it is after exiting the EU. It is the EU and it's precious border that it insists must be hard, that is the issue. The EU itself is the issue. The EU could come up with a SENSIBLE solution but opts not to. It is entirely the EU's fault the issue exists. And I feel certain you know that without having it explained.
"According to the Good Friday Agreement it is the joint responsibility of the RoI and UK governments,.."
Indeed. And neither the UK nor Ireland has any intention of imposing a hard border, come what may. So in whose court does the ball reside?
"....and it is entirely the UK governments fault that the agreement has been put in jeopardy."
No it isn't. It is the UK electorate's fault for having the temerity to want to leave the ever increasingly preposterous EU. Their wishes cannot be thwarted by the EU introducing a non-issue as a roadblock. And I will ask yet again, what happens to cross-border traffic if we leave with no deal?
Indeed. And neither the UK nor Ireland has any intention of imposing a hard border, come what may. So in whose court does the ball reside?
"....and it is entirely the UK governments fault that the agreement has been put in jeopardy."
No it isn't. It is the UK electorate's fault for having the temerity to want to leave the ever increasingly preposterous EU. Their wishes cannot be thwarted by the EU introducing a non-issue as a roadblock. And I will ask yet again, what happens to cross-border traffic if we leave with no deal?
Nothing will happen on March 19, because as you are aware there is a transition period in place until Jan 2021 I think. Let me ask you this if there is no need of a border of any sort between the EU and UK on the island of Ireland how will immigration be controlled? People can just cross from Europe into Ireland and then stroll over the open border, jump on a boat or plane onto the mainland of Britain. That was one of the main reasons for Brexit as I understand it, controlling immigration.
"So what’s to stop them, Khandro?"
The same thing as prevents them now - nothing. There will be no difference in illegal migration across the Irish border post Brexit, whatever the leaving conditions are. There will be no hard border (as there isn't now). There is nothing now preventing people entering Ireland illegally and crossing to the UK. The fact is it doesn't happen because it is not easy to get from mainland Europe to Ireland without being detected. It won't be any easier post-Brexit.
"Let me ask you this if there is no need of a border of any sort between the EU and UK on the island of Ireland how will immigration be controlled?"
It won't be. The UK and Ireland have decided there is no need to control movement of people across the Irish border. There is no need now and there will be no need post-Brexit.
"Nothing will happen on March 19, because as you are aware there is a transition period in place until Jan 2021 I think."
There will not be a transition period if we leave with no deal. But perhaps you could be kind enough to answer my question, Roman (since i've answered yours). What will happen to cross border traffic (be it in 2019 or 2021)?
The same thing as prevents them now - nothing. There will be no difference in illegal migration across the Irish border post Brexit, whatever the leaving conditions are. There will be no hard border (as there isn't now). There is nothing now preventing people entering Ireland illegally and crossing to the UK. The fact is it doesn't happen because it is not easy to get from mainland Europe to Ireland without being detected. It won't be any easier post-Brexit.
"Let me ask you this if there is no need of a border of any sort between the EU and UK on the island of Ireland how will immigration be controlled?"
It won't be. The UK and Ireland have decided there is no need to control movement of people across the Irish border. There is no need now and there will be no need post-Brexit.
"Nothing will happen on March 19, because as you are aware there is a transition period in place until Jan 2021 I think."
There will not be a transition period if we leave with no deal. But perhaps you could be kind enough to answer my question, Roman (since i've answered yours). What will happen to cross border traffic (be it in 2019 or 2021)?
"Soon we won’t be so that ‘nothing’ will become ‘something’."
Just what then? If I'm missing a point what am I missing? Who is going to impose any sort of restriction between Belfast and Dublin and what form will it take? You often ask for "proof" or "examples" of contentions made on this topic. I'm suggesting nothing of any consequence will change. You think otherwise. So tell me what it might be.
Just what then? If I'm missing a point what am I missing? Who is going to impose any sort of restriction between Belfast and Dublin and what form will it take? You often ask for "proof" or "examples" of contentions made on this topic. I'm suggesting nothing of any consequence will change. You think otherwise. So tell me what it might be.
What the ‘something’ may be is described here:
https:/
But it looks like the EU may be thinking twice:
https:/
https:/
But it looks like the EU may be thinking twice:
https:/
The "Irish border" issue is a masterclass in false premise and hidden agenda. The reason for the impasse is not and never has been about trade, or smuggling, or illegal immigration, or any of the myriad of distorted reasons flagged up for public consumption. Neither is it about the unification of the "Irish" people. It all hinges on the fact that off the Northern Irish coast lie billions of barrels of oil and underground in NI are deposits of shale oil on a massive scale. These deposits make what came out of the North Sea seem but a drop in the ocean. A pipeline was laid from Amlwch (Anglesey) to the Stanlow refinery way back in the 1970s ostensibly to bring ashore oil from the North Sea, all the way around the northern coast of Scotland, no less. 2 tankers did indeed off load oil and the pipeline was filled and sealed. No more was ever brought ashore by that route. So a pipeline costing £billions was laid across Anglesey, under the Menai Straits, over the very rugged high ground around Conwy, under the River Conwy, and across two more rivers to Ellesmere Port. Then abandoned. The EU and wants control of those resources, and is encouraging Dublin to push for the sea border solution to gain that control. With Britain out of the EUSSR they have no say or jurisdiction of those oil fields off the NI coast whilst it remains part of GB.
The article quotes EU lawyers, not that they've any agenda, what with being so independent, claiming that, "British government has so far failed to offer a “workable” backstop plan to avoid Brexit border frictions in Ireland and must do so now if the European Parliament is to endorse a smooth transition out of the EU". This, of course, is balderdash. The British government isn't the one who needs to solve the EU's deliberately created issue, but even so, it did offer a workable plan which, surprise surprise, the EU rejected. The ball remains in the EU court to remove their issue to endorse a smooth parting of the ways. But in any case, I don't see how this relates to immigrants which I thought the discussion was about.
Still no answer, Zacs.
I keep hearing that there may (or will) be a "hard border" in the event of the UK "crashing out" of the EU. Fine. However, the UK has stated categorically that it will not impose one; Ireland has said categorically that it will not impose one. So who will, how will they do it, and will they have the resources and the facilities in place to do so by 31/3/19? It's not a difficult question.
This problem has been expanded to epic, deal breaking proportions when no particular problem exists because nobody has the slightest intention of imposing a hard border. All that is needed is a similar system to that used for almost all of the other goods that land in the EU from beyond together with a sensible arrangement to preserve the UK/Ireland common travel area which has existed for a hundred years. Only a very small proportion of those goods are subject to what amounts to a hard border. Containers are not opened, boxes are not searched. The EU has a perfectly good system for controlling the entry of goods to its member nations, be it by sea, air or land. They can develop one easily to cope with the piffling amount of cross-border traffic in Ireland but if they can't or won't it doesn't matter because the border is invisible and will remain so whatever terms the UK leaves the EU on.
The issue is a non-issue and the question is a non-question. There's no need to ask how to avoid a hard border in Ireland because nobody will impose one.
I keep hearing that there may (or will) be a "hard border" in the event of the UK "crashing out" of the EU. Fine. However, the UK has stated categorically that it will not impose one; Ireland has said categorically that it will not impose one. So who will, how will they do it, and will they have the resources and the facilities in place to do so by 31/3/19? It's not a difficult question.
This problem has been expanded to epic, deal breaking proportions when no particular problem exists because nobody has the slightest intention of imposing a hard border. All that is needed is a similar system to that used for almost all of the other goods that land in the EU from beyond together with a sensible arrangement to preserve the UK/Ireland common travel area which has existed for a hundred years. Only a very small proportion of those goods are subject to what amounts to a hard border. Containers are not opened, boxes are not searched. The EU has a perfectly good system for controlling the entry of goods to its member nations, be it by sea, air or land. They can develop one easily to cope with the piffling amount of cross-border traffic in Ireland but if they can't or won't it doesn't matter because the border is invisible and will remain so whatever terms the UK leaves the EU on.
The issue is a non-issue and the question is a non-question. There's no need to ask how to avoid a hard border in Ireland because nobody will impose one.
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