Brexit, Am I Missing Something

[Vagus]

When the referendum took place I didn’t believe what either side were saying and looked at what I thought would be best both for me, my family and the country and voted remain.
Now that we are leaving I’m trying to see the positive and see how it’s going to improve things for me and my family in particular and I’m struggling to see any benefit.
I’ve noticed that lots of people on here seem very keen Brexiters so can you tell me how you see the benefits of leaving to you and your family. Do you see yourselves being better off etc?

[jourdain2]

Vagus, read the poem 'Invictus' by Henley. Then you may understand.

[Theland]

How does sacrificing democracy enrich us?

[ichkeria]

Well that is sort of the point I was making myself!

[Theland]

Yippee! A meeting of minds. Break out the balloons.

[ichkeria]

I honestly wouldn’t go that far : or even close ;-)

[Theland]

I think Ill change my mind, become a remainer, and argue for it, as a devils advocate.
I look forward to the abuse for my simplistic arguments.

[Togo]

// But the op asked about material benefit//

No it didn't. The word benefit was asked in a general sense and is being answered by the visionary Brexiteers. If I want ready cash I will sign up to the ponzi scheme bribe culture. Just like the lap dog, short term selfish genuflecters.

[andres]

It would take far too long to discuss the thousands of EU laws,international directives, court verdicts etc. that have been brought in since we joined the EU. Some have been good others ridiculous. Once we leave the EU it will be up to the government to sort through them and get rid of some. Like the one where dependent children of EU workers in the UK can be claimed for even though they don't live here. That should save some money. The EU determines vat at 15% .After Brexit it can be lowered and energy bills will come down. We will be able to buy misshapen bananas and higher voltage vacuum cleaners again. Kettles, toasters and hair dryers will not be changed.. We will probably keep some of the employment laws such as the one regarding maximum hours to be worked in a week. If you have the time just take a look at some of the laws etc. I am sure that you will find something to benefit you or your family.

[Zacs-Master]

NJ ‘suffer. I voted leave so that the UK could regain its status as an independent sovereign state‘

Which means what, exactly.

For those of you who don’t know, when pressed for some practical reasons, NJ stated he’d voted leave so he could buy planet warming light bulbs, and some other guff about queuing at airports. Other staunch leave voters cited being able to buy weapons grade paint stripper and weed killer.

What was Tjeland saying about ‘thick’ voters?

[Old_Geezer]

The benefit is that you control your own country again, not allow some unelected elite to tell you what you have to do. But this is obvious. It's a strange question, a bit like a citizen of conquered nation asking what the benefit of being a free nation is because they can't see it.

[Zacs-Master]

Give me 3 examples of the EU telling us what we have to do.

[Theland]

Zacs - don't you like democracy?

[Zacs-Master]

I love it, thanks. Did you have a point?

[Old_Geezer]

Give me an example of how there is ever any benefit of giving you specific examples for you to mock because you can't grasp the importance of the ability to rule oneself. Isn't it about time you gave up on that tiresome stale tactic ? Go look up all the times we had to accept EU rules when that wasn't our desire. You think it's all been total agreement over the years or something ? If you don't value sovereignty at least accept most do.

[Zacs-Master]

Nobody can tell me what ‘ruling oneself’ actually means, tho. Or sovereignty. Go on......explain.

[Theland]

The petulant child strikes again. Go to bed son.

[KARL]

Vagus, your initial thoughts were to the point: For some the notion of leaving the EU has a kind of religious aura about it, it is a matter of faith that it is by definition worth while for the reversal alone. It is an assumption that taking part in a collective behaviour equates to submitting to oppression if/when one is not allowed to run it oneself. Please try to find and read a broad collection of newspapers from between 1966 to 1976 and gen up on how UK applications to join the forerunner of the EU were rebuffed, the press reaction to that, and then when an application finally was successful. Then go on to read how life was during the strikes, the power rationing, etc., etc. - try to find how it was all the foreigners' fault. You may already be aware that the UK then went on to repeatedly demand concessions and special status within the EU - and was given these. Now the UK is leaving because they don't accept the majority sentiment in Europe and the policies that follow. Within the UK it is the civil service that actually runs the country and they are the main force in drafting all law and there is no likelihood that there will be any change - they are unelected.

My intention, and I suggest you adopt the same, is simply to wait 5-10 years by which time the results of Brexit will likely be abundantly clear. If you then feel a warm fuzzy feeling of contentment it will have been worth it.

[Theland]

We joined a Common Market.
We were not asked about Maastricht or Lisbon.
Why?
Maybe we would have agreed if asked.

[Zacs-Master]

No explanations, I see. Unless the one which broke Site Rules had a crack. Sadly........

[New Judge]

Sorry, Zacs, I wasn’t up in the small hours.

“Give me 3 examples of the EU telling us what we have to do.”

Let’s move away from light bulbs and look more generally:

We have to transfer about £10bn (net) of taxpayers’ money to Brussels each year. (Cost:>£300 per taxpayer per year)

We have to impose tariffs on imports (which we might otherwise prefer not to do) and remit 80% of the sums collected to Brussels.

We have to allow foreign fishing vessels access to our fishing grounds which any normal maritime country would reserve for their exclusive use.

We have to impose VAT on end-users when a simple purchase tax would be far less cumbersome and far, far less costly to administer.

Will that do for a change?

“Nobody can tell me what ‘ruling oneself’ actually means,…”

I’ve said before “The ability for the UK Parliament to make decisions that are solely in the UK’s interests, without being bound by rulings from a supra-national institution (like, for example, allowing traders to sell incandescent light bulbs and powerful vacuum cleaners. Oh, and abolishing import duties where we have no wish to impose them).

It’s pointless going over the same ground repeatedly. The situation is quite straightforward: If you like the idea of having your laws, taxation and regulations set by foreign civil servants (regardless of whether you agree with them or not or whether you believe they are good or bad) then the EU is the place for you. If you don’t then it isn’t.