Riots or Uprising

[Chessman]

This follows on from Dom Tuks French Riots. Reding the news this morning, (rarely watch tv), it now spread to fifteen cities and towns, at least. It started off as riots, and maybe i'm a doom and gloom merchant, but does anyone think that it may have developed int an uprising?.

[january_bug]

I think you could be right. A map I saw in the papers today (or maybe yesterday!) showed considerably more than 15 towns.

I saw a headline "Leaders fiddle, while France burns" - they had a point.

Could even be in for a Revolution, but I suspect it would be a little different from 1789!

[Dom Tuk]

For this reason alone i will support any form of censorship/reporting restrictions here in the UK. Dont want this kind of nonsense here.

[january_bug]

Dom Tuk - may I again ask for clarification - What do you mean by "nonsense" - rioting in general, or rioting by non-whites? I'm not making a presumption, merely asking for clarity.

[Dom Tuk]

JB, rioting in general, there are other methods to prove a point, burning cars and houses is not one of them

[CT]

Apparently rioting was less severe last night than the night before. Only ~1100 cars torched last night, compared to ~1500 the night before.

[january_bug]

Fair enough Dom Tuk.

Although I feel that it's strange (but probably you are right) that images on the TV should cause an uprising. I mean the suggestion is that, it's only cos the French are at it, that the malcontents would bother to act rather than just moving to Tunbridge Wells.

[Drusilla]

I believe it is an attempt by certain radical Moslem groups to assert their authority within their communities, but I don't see it as an uprising because the youngsters involved don't have the werewithal to take on the French state militarily, just yet. I believe the agitators intention is to get a violent reaction from the French people, hoping that propels their own disaffected youth into a more prolonged form of agitation and possibly terrorist acts in the future. A lot rests on the ability and desire of moderate Moslem leaders to control their own communities, but unfortunately and as with Moslems leaders in England, they tend to blame the government and conveniently forget that the duty of community leaders is to lead, not whimper and turn a blind eye.

[january_bug]

Is it only Muslims who are rioting?

[Chessman]

Following on from the answers give, and a little more to get your teeth into, apparently is also spread, although as yet not nearly as bad, to Germany and Holland.

[bazwillrun]

these rioters are supposedly rioting because they are unhappy about their treatment in france, well they can always go back to where they came from, oh they dont like it their either, thats why they came to france in the first place ! !!

[Dom Tuk]

Seriously is this a muslim/islamic riot?? I am not so sure. I know north Africans are involved and so are black french speaking africans. But never did i think it was a muslim against non muslim riot. The news media have just not clarified what the whole issue is hence my question regarding censorship in a separate thread

[january_bug]

bazwillrun - Perhaps you didn't realise but (according to some sources) a lot of the people who are rioting are teenagers and people under 25. They are (according to some sources) seconrd or third generation immigrants (i.e., it's their parents or grandparents who first came to France). They are full citizens of France, entitled to vote and hold French passports. As such, although I don't know the full story, I think it's only fair to say that, on the whole, they deserve more than to be treated like 4th class citizens.

So for some (possibly most), it's not a case of going back to where they came from - because they were born and bred in France!!

[jake-the-peg]

Is this actually that much worse than we saw in Brixton and Toxteth and Handsworth and St. Pauls etc. in 1981?

I wouldn't want to be caught in the middle of it but it's scarceley an uprising.

May 1968 was an uprising

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968

20,000 students and teachers marched on the sorbonne, ten million French workers went on strike in support and De Gaul dissolved the assembly

[january_bug]

jake - some of us, and many of the French involved at the moment, weren't actually BORN in 1981!!!!! (Not that that discredits what you were saying, I wasn't trying to do that!)

[jake-the-peg]

Point taken <retreats to bath chair>

[blinkyblinky]

From the horse's mouth:

"Because we hate, because we're mad, because we've had it up to here," said Rachid, parka hood up against the cold. "Look around you. This place is ****, it's a dump. We have nothing here. There's nothing for us."

"It's so easy," said Ali, 16. "You need a beer bottle, a bit of petrol or white spirit, a strip of rag and a lighter. Cars are better, though, when the tank goes. One of you smashes a window, the other lobs the bottle."

"We hate France and France hates us," he spat, refusing to give even his first name. "I don't know what I am. Here's not home; my gran's in Algeria. But in any case France is just ******* with us. We're like mad dogs, you know? We bite everything we see. Go back to Paris, man."

Sylla summed it up. "We burn because it's the only way to make ourselves heard, because it's solidarity with the rest of the non-citizens in this country, with this whole underclass. Because it feels good to do something with your rage," he said.

(today's guardian)

[foxy.fagin]

Isn't it just wonderful when others know what's going on in the nextdoor neighbour's yard better than it does in its own. Where did you get your inside info from, EDDIE51 - 30,000 cars a year? Yet still traffic jams, good lord!
january_bug, you talk about certain sections of the community being treated as 4th class citizens. You criticise jake talking about 1981 and Briixton because you'd not been boen, so how do you know about 3rd class, let alone 4th class? Actually I think jake's reply has been the most common sense one and that's not only because I agree with him.
And, let's not forget blinkyblinky with info "straight from the horse's mouth" all in purrrrfect English, but wasn't there a thread here not long ago saying how we ought to regard the Guardian + its readers who are "wishy washy liberals" if I remember correctly!

Heard nothing about Holland but I know there has been one incident in Belgium and a couple of cars fired in Berlin.

Has anyine seen the map of france shown on CNN with the towns marked. Toulouse is in the east just below Strasbourg, Paris is vaguely correct and Lyon is frighteningly central France. Mind you, could any of you do any better...

[blinkyblinky]

foxyfagin - oh dear, please forgive me for reading The Guardian and for writing perfect English. How terribly moronic of me - what a wishy-washy liberal fool I am!

[foxy.fagin]

Shame you neither understand what you write bb nor what you read. I think maybe you should stay away from news issues, you aren't open minded enough to join in.