As Usual The Eu Are Playing

[cassa333]

Hard ball.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46560807

They will perhaps give a few ‘assurances’ but they mean nothing if not done with legal clauses.

So what next?

Remainers would prefer no Brexit. (Against the democratic result of the referendum)

Failing that the softest of soft Brexits. (Hog tie us and stopping our ability to be competitive and get trade deals of our own without representation. Taxation without representation)

Leavers would on the hole, I think, prefer no deal and just leave. (Carrying out the democratic result of the referendum)

MPs won’t countenance no deal so we are left with delay or suspend A50 indefinitely, go against the democratic vote to rescind A50 or another referendum.

By the time the government decides what to do will there be time to do anything else other than leave?

I hope they procrastinate and twiddle their thumbs long enough to run out of time. However I think there are enough people that don’t believe in the ability of the UK that they will get all the paperwork done so that it (whichever democracy crushing route they take) it can be rushed through last second.

[Old_Geezer]

"And this time it would not be a gamble: there would be proper options: status quo or an actual exit deal. As it should have been in the first place"

I trust this was a leg-pull. Clearly the status quo isn't an option, we have already decided to go. The issue is about whether terms that can be agreed (if any can be) should be applied or not.

[Ellipsis]

> It's a farce. Just get the heck out

It is indeed a farce, and has been all along. So you might as well say ...

* It's a farce. Just do the deal on the table and worry about the backstop if and when it happens.

... or even ...

* It's a farce. Let's remain and reconsider in a few years.

[ToraToraTora]

kromo, we should not sell our souls to avoid difficulties. We have got through far worse in the past. Whatever happens we'll deal with it. we cannot allow the Eurocrats to control things.

[ichkeria]

You sound increasingly desperate OG: I worry about you ;-)

[anneasquith]

Yep. Let's blame th EU rather than the government who had no idea what they were doing initially and know even less now.

[Kromovaracun]

//We have got through far worse in the past.//

In the past we had to. This is a completely self-imposed set of problems.

If you want a re-enactment, join a society.

[ToraToraTora]

"This is a completely self-imposed set of problems. " - irrelevant they are still problems that need to be tackled. What are you suggesting? we just call the whole thing off and ignore the referendum result?

[ichkeria]

“No Deal” should be taken out of the picture. We are stuck tho still with the PM’s foolish assertion that “no deal is better than a bad deal which at best was meaningless and at worse has come back to haunt her when reminded of it by those who think what we have now is a bad deal.
It would need the EU to go along with it tho, which is a big issue. They want fine with it. That’s why a referendum with the other two options makes sense. They’d probably agree to wait while we arranged that.

[Kromovaracun]

I think a better strategy would be to either postpone or withdraw Art 50 and campaign in the next election based on joining EFTA. After that, we can perhaps disentangle more gradually if the public still support it.

[jno]

just call the whole thing off and ignore the referendum result

aka "when you're in a hole, stop digging"

[ichkeria]

They want “done” with it. (Don’t we all)

[Kromovaracun]

Also: never, ever, under any circumstances, use nationwide referenda in the UK ever again.

[ToraToraTora]

kromo, GEs are about all the issues not just one. Silly to expect the people to cast their votes based on one issue and ignore the rest. Anyway as we know, in elections no Tory is going to vote labour and vice versa regardless of what they say. The whole GE thing is a silly irrelevance.

[Old_Geezer]

On the contrary Ellipsis, as you must know, having decided to go taking a deal preventing us going, or opting not to go, doesn't fit the criteria of a valid option. Sad that needs explaining really.

[Ellipsis]

Never let reading what I'm actually writing get in the way of a good insult, Old_Geezer ...

[Old_Geezer]

I never feel a need to insult, just state that which is so.
I'm sure everyone visiting read what you put.

[Ellipsis]

It's still there. :)

[cassa333]

No deal should not be taken off the table. That was what the referendum was about. Leave the EU or remain in the EU.

Anyone who wants no deal taken off IS undemocratic. It’s that simple. Of course they don’t think they are, but they are.

Both leave and remain propaganda said leaving the EU would mean leaving the single market, customs union and EU projects.

If you want a deal that allows access to the things you want wait till we are out and negotiate as equal partners. As it is we are not equal.

[Kromovaracun]

//Leave the EU or remain in the EU.//

It's (at best) highly ambiguous whether or not 'Leave' meant 'WTO terms immediately.' There were multiple Leave campaigns that each promised different things for what ticking that box would mean.

[Kromovaracun]

//we are out and negotiate as equal partners.//

Cassa, with all due respect, this is deluded.