How Will Splitting The Political Declaration From The Rest Make A Difference?

[ToraToraTora]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47740158
Surely the whole backstop issue remains.

[ichkeria]

It has presumably been done so they can say it’s different as per the Speaker’s ruling, I think that is the only reason. As you say, it doesn’t get around the backstop (or indeed anything much else of substance)
As I understand it,

[ToraToraTora]

well they were saying on the news that its the political declaration that Labour most object too but surely it's a load of airy fairy cobras with no actual substance anyway.

[fiction-factory]

I'm trying to follow all the interviews and explanations on % live but I'm not clear about this one. Maybe if this one can get enough votes it will give us a some leverage to discuss/renogtiate the more contentious remaining 'political declaration' bits with the EU or the DUP.More significantly it will also trigger the extension to May 22nd.

[ichkeria]

Labour is never going to support this deal in a month of Fridays. The DUP cares about the backstop and nothing else and that’s in the withdrawal agreement. The political arrangement from what I recall is the vague appendix to the main deal.
Either there is some trick I am missing, which is more than likely, or it’s Desperate Dan rides again.

[jim360]

I guess the point is that the vote has to be tomorrow if they want to get the May 22nd extension. Since it was going to lose anyway, may as well get the third loss out of the way.

[vetuste_ennemi]

Just beenb watching Sky News: both Labour and the DUP have announced that they will vote against.

[ichkeria]

Yes I guess it’s the principle that you can’t win the lottery if you don’t buy a ticket

[jim360]

Well that's one thing to be grateful for.

[Old_Geezer]

The difference is that it underlines the deceitful behaviour that goes on in politics and the HoC, parliment and government; for the whole electorate to see and understand. Even those who realised politicians lie and manipulate will probably have had their eyes opened further by this latest set of antics. Not easy to find anyone there being honourable.

[ichkeria]

No politicians aren’t deceitful and dishonourable. That is the lazy attitude. From Jacob Rees Mogg (tho I heartily disagree with him) to Ken Clarke and all shades in between, these are people who merely represent the differences in the country. Arguably Labour as a whole are the culprits because they have the numbers to help the WA get through. But hey you don’t like the WA so it’s all good, no?
If the general public was the parliament then you’d see the same divisions: then you’d see the different views of leavers as well as the remainders etc. One of the great fallacies of populism is that “the people” speak with a single voice. They do not. And we cannot expect parliament to do so either, especially on this issue.

[Old_Geezer]

It's a realistic attitude. Just look what they're all up to now. Changing the exit date, trying for non-Brexit solutions, opting to support a deal they already have admitted is rubbish just because they want a vacancy at the top. No point arguing that they are representing differences in the country. That became irrelevant after the referendum when a decision was decided upon. The only thing needed then was to get behind the decision. Any other stance is deceitful and dishonourable.

[jim360]

There are plenty of Joe Public Brexit supporters who would either back the deal or take it. A minority it is true, but it is needlessly restrictive to call them "dishonourable" just because their vision of Brexit is different from yours.

[Old_Geezer]

There is only one exit, it's where we exit rather than pretend to.

[jim360]

It is worth pointing out, once again, that May's Withdrawal Agreement does ultimately see us leaving the EU. It takes time, and I am not going to sit here claiming that it's even remotely ideal; but it is an exit nonetheless.

No decision in politics, let alone in life, should ever be reduced to all or nothing.

[pixie374]

//No decision in politics, let alone in life, should ever be reduced to all or nothing.//

A self-defeating sentence :-)

[jim360]

Oh crap, I fell for the "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" trap :P

[Old_Geezer]

The major objection is that May's Withdrawal Agreement does not ultimately see us leaving the EU, it ties us in without a voice and the only opposing parts trying to suggest all is well are "trust us, we're politicians, EU ones at that, we won't be keeping you here and you can go to arbitration if you think we are", and "trust us, we're UK politicians with a document saying all's well, that the EU has declined to comment on for some reason".

[anotheoldgit]

If we had just come out, as the majority of the UK people wanted, the Irish border would have been the EU's problem not ours.

[mushroom25]

the deal will today perform like the stereotypical drowning man, and go down for the third time.

[Sqad]

One thing stands out in this whole negotiation is that parliamentary procedure and legislation is far too complicated and needs re-assessment and simplification.
Democracy is a slow ponderous process which although desirable (arguably) is just not working with Brexit........someone, the prime Minister, needs to say, that this is how we are going to do it and to get on with the job........Parliament isn't set up for this...unfortunately.

Today's vote will bury the Withdrawal Agreement for good and this will put the EU in the driving seat and negotiations for a postponement of day of withdrawal will be in years, rather than weeks or months.
Brexit just ain't going to happen.