Children's Lives

[JF85]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48129280

Gavin Williamson apparently swore on his children's lives that he did not leak information.

Irrespective of whether leaked or did or not, is this an appropriate way for a government minister to speak?

[jno]

it's hard to say what anyone should swear on these days if they want to be believed. It would be unfortunate if he was indeed fibbing and his children had to be executed.

[spathiphyllum]

Maybe i'm stoopid.. but i can't understand what info we're talking about. Anyone enlighten me? Was it info about an update or was it user details?

[teacake44]

What's new about any MP telling porky pies.

[Calicogirl]

My Dad always said something interesting about people who 'swore on their children's lives' about anything.
He said to a man they were lying and not to be trusted, and I tend to feel the same way. It's not something I would ever do or I think anyone telling the truth would ever do if they genuinely felt it held any weight, it's the last resort of the truly desperate to convince you of something unlikely with emotivity.

[spathiphyllum]

I think it's the same as swearing on the bible or the american flag or whatever.. It means nothing. Words Words Words. A liar is a liar.

[Prudie]

See I don't think it's the same as swearing on an inanimate object like a bible - it's an outrageous totally unacceptable phrase. It's also very immature. I certainly hope he's not lying.

[spathiphyllum]

OK what about a grave? Or "my mums life" etc.. It's all the same. A liar would lie about swearing on anything, so i mean.. It makes no sense to me.

[teacake44]

I would think he will get his expenses paid up to date, no questions asked.

[Calicogirl]

No I don't think so either Prudie, a flag or book is not the same as offering up your children's lives, your most precious thing in all the world, to try to convince someone of something. It isn't right, I feel really strongly about that.

[Calicogirl]

But I think only a liar would swear on someone's life- that's my point Spath, I dont think someone telling the truth would ever do that.

[spathiphyllum]

you're not actually offering up your children's lives though. A liar lies, or says things, to protect their own dignity or just themselves. I don't see why swearing on the life of someone (your child, mother, partner whatever)could prove you're not lining, because you're saying wild things, to try and get people to believe you, which is exactly what liars do.. Say crazy things to hide the truth, or to steer clear of it.

[spathiphyllum]

I still don't even get what this is all about. What info was leaked??? Was it info in an update, or huawei users private data?

[JF85]

As I said originally, I am not asking about the alleged leak, although I see somebody has cleared that up for you now. A bible is an inanimate object, as is a flag. Nobody is really hurt if you lie on oath to either, except the truth. Islamic and Christian countries get very irate about such things, which just makes them easier targets.

By swearing on a living or dead person, I believe (as others have said) that you are trying to use emotion to hide your own deception. in my own head,however, I still hear "I would throw my family under a bus to protect myself" and that is not a position that commands my respect. I wonder how his family feel about it, particularly if he is later shown to have lied?

Incidentally, I suspect it was a calculated gamble. He has lost his job on the 'balance of probabilities', not 'beyond reasonable doubt', and he knows it I should not in the national interest to compromise intelligence information further still just to get a token criminal conviction against him. I hope, however, that his constituents are emboldened by the Peterborough experience. If he would sacrifice his children, how low does he rate his voters?

[JF85]

Apologies: "... it was not in the national interest".

Thank you all for your thoughts.

[Prudie]

"you're not actually offering up your children's lives though" - that is up for debate, it's tempting fate - you may think that's a load of carp but there are more mysteries in the universe than we understand.

[spathiphyllum]

If saying i swear on my children's life, gives someone the opportunity to kill my child, then i mean.. .What The Funicular. No it is NOT a sacrifice or offering.

[spathiphyllum]

tempting fate, maybe but what gravity does that have on anything? Ohh touch wood.. ?

[pixie374]

If that was my children's father, I wouldn't be impressed with it whether he was lying or not. It does seem to assume people are generally superstitious and doesn't prove anything though. Surely, if he is telling the truth, he doesn't need to make these claims?

[Calicogirl]

Quite Prudie, that is exactly what you're doing, you are swearing an oath and making a pact with whatever powers might (or might not) be out there offering up your child's life is you are lying. It's a spell in the simplest sense of the word and the hell I would ever do that, and the hell I would ever believe anyone who did because they have no morals whatsoever, so they'd lie without a second thought x

[spathiphyllum]

this is news not religion and spirituality.