Eurovision Outrage At Palestine Flags.

[flobadob]

Apparently the organisers of Eurovision are planning action against those who showed Palestine flags during the show, claiming that the Eurovision is a non political event. But why single out the Palestine flag when there were Israel flags in almost every shot and behind all of the participation countries when they were being shown accepting their votes. It seems to smack of a bit of hypocrisy.

[KARL]

puzzled54, I notice that Palestine has been recognised as a country, I don't know by how many countries or organisations but Iceland has issued such a recognition - I know they were the first to recognise the Baltic states on the fall of the USSR.

[maggiebee]

//Climate Change is made up, maggie, as anyone with more than 2 working brain cells knows by now.//
Reminder to self: Email Sir David Attenborough and let him know this.

[Arksided]

I'll send a note Maggie.

[Khandro]

Karl; The State of Palestine is recognised by 137 UN members, though historically it's a vague description of an area, there is no Palestine language.

Wiki says; "The term "Palestine" has been associated with the geographical area that currently covers the State of Israel, the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. General use of the term "Palestine" or related terms to the area at the southeast corner of the Mediterranean Sea beside Syria has historically been taking place since the times of Ancient Greece, with Herodotus writing of a "district of Syria, called Palaistine" in which Phoenicians interacted with other maritime peoples.

Some other terms that have been used to refer to all or part of the geographical region of "Palestine" include Canaan, Land of Israel (Eretz Yisrael or Ha'aretz), Greater Syria, the Holy Land, Iudaea Province, Judea, Coele-Syria, "Israel HaShlema", Kingdom of Israel, Kingdom of Jerusalem, Zion, Retenu (Ancient Egyptian), Southern Syria, Southern Levant and Syria Palaestina."

I have a photo of my Dad, RAF, WWII, standing in shorts in the desert, looking very handsome, with a pipe clenched between his teeth and on the back he wrote, "Convalescing in Palestine". I know not from what.

[KARL]

Khandro, as you point out, there is widespread recognition of a Palestinian State. The continuing difficulty is centred on the matter of how wide beyond the territory currently held by Palestinians the "rightful" borders of Palestine should be drawn. There is of course no question that Israel has occupied land which was not part of the original State of Israel. Both Palestinians and Israelis lay competing claim to some of that land. Palestinians are Arabic speakers but that has nothing to do with their claim to the territory, any more than Omanis claiming Oman, Yemenis claiming Yemen, Syrians claiming Syria (including territory occupied by Israel) - or indeed Kurdish speaking Kurds claiming parts of Iran, Turkey, Syria and Iraq for a state of their own. The question of "rights" to a particular territory in the Palestinian-Israeli dispute centres on "habitual residence", including also after displacement. The right of Palestinians displaced in the past 100 years or so from land they have lived on for centuries and called their own appears on the face of it at least as strong as the right of Jews who have for generations and many centuries lived elsewhere, with (in lots of cases still held, including by descendants) citizenship and a homeland elsewhere. The principal problem is, as is universally recognised (except by a limited number of viewpoints, principally Israelis') is that religion and definitions based on religion are included in the mix. But most of all, the Holocaust generated a sentiment and momentum which colours/skews all discussion of the matter - it is the trump card thrown down by some whenever it suits them. Any and all indication of disapproval of Israel's conduct similarly elicits accusative cries of anti-Semitism.

[ichkeria]

The UK has had 5 points deducted after the jury from Belarus, the biggest single source of UK votes, was sacked!
I’d say that’s an all time low :-)

[douglas9401]

"Convalescing in Palestine". I know not from what.

Possibly aching Hezbollas?

[Khandro]

^^^ Is that supposed to be a joke?

[ichkeria]

A salutary lesson to what happens to Russian provinces when they refuse to give Big Brother any points!

[douglas9401]

'Yes Khandro' he said, wearily.

[Khandro]

Karl; No doubt that 750,00 Palestinians were driven from their land in 1948. But a similar number of Jews were expelled from Arab countries as a direct consequence of the foundation of the Israeli state.

I refer to a letter in the TLS by Michael Sommer, Jan 22 2016;

"........120,000 [Jews] were forced to leave Iraq - many of them having held distinguished positions in public life - after suffering brutal persecution, including the public hanging of Jews, nor can we doubt that native Palestinian Arabs and Jews of an earlier generation feel unable to the land they remember "because it does't exist" and "has changed beyond recognition". But the same could be said of Egyptian Jews, who had a significant presence in Egypt for two-and-a-half millennia. Some 80,000 had their property confiscated and were driven out of the country after 1950 on government orders."

[Khandro]

Karl, then there is this marvellous 4 min. video; the silence at the end of which is riveting;