News0 min ago
Brexit. Elephant In The Room ?
Do you think that the real people behind all this Brexit delay and chaos are the civil servants, who really pull the strings and co-erce the Prime Minister and pro Brexit negotiators into doing their will ? Not that TM need much co-ersion !
Shades of ' Yes, Minister' ?
Shades of ' Yes, Minister' ?
Answers
//The reason Brexit hasn’t happened is because the House of Commons has not backed the Brexit Deal.// That’s not quite the case. No Member of Parliament with any integrity (if there are any) could have voted for the Withdrawal Agreement. It is the sort of Treaty that should only be signed following defeat in a war. The reason that Brexit has not been...
15:57 Sun 19th May 2019
jim // No // I really find it hard to understand you sometimes.
Theresa May's Chief negotiator was the civil servant and arch-remainer, Olly Robbins, they loved him in the EU and he was "the darling of Brussels" because he complied with everything they wanted, he was Mays poodle and instigator of the infamous 600 page 'deal' .
BUT;
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Theresa May's Chief negotiator was the civil servant and arch-remainer, Olly Robbins, they loved him in the EU and he was "the darling of Brussels" because he complied with everything they wanted, he was Mays poodle and instigator of the infamous 600 page 'deal' .
BUT;
https:/
//The reason Brexit hasn’t happened is because the House of Commons has not backed the Brexit Deal.//
That’s not quite the case.
No Member of Parliament with any integrity (if there are any) could have voted for the Withdrawal Agreement. It is the sort of Treaty that should only be signed following defeat in a war. The reason that Brexit has not been completed is because the Commons have decided that we cannot leave without a deal and the only deal on offer is totally unacceptable to anybody other than those who would prefer we remained.
The infamous “deal” was almost certainly concocted by Civil Servants (on both sides). What intrigues me is how on Earth Mrs May believed it would ever have been agreed by Parliament. That august body is supposed to be acting in the best interests of the UK. Quite how it could do that by acquiescing to the total capitulation that is the basis of the Agreement is somewhat hard to fathom. I can see that, most of the country can see that. But Mrs May, apparently, cannot.
That’s not quite the case.
No Member of Parliament with any integrity (if there are any) could have voted for the Withdrawal Agreement. It is the sort of Treaty that should only be signed following defeat in a war. The reason that Brexit has not been completed is because the Commons have decided that we cannot leave without a deal and the only deal on offer is totally unacceptable to anybody other than those who would prefer we remained.
The infamous “deal” was almost certainly concocted by Civil Servants (on both sides). What intrigues me is how on Earth Mrs May believed it would ever have been agreed by Parliament. That august body is supposed to be acting in the best interests of the UK. Quite how it could do that by acquiescing to the total capitulation that is the basis of the Agreement is somewhat hard to fathom. I can see that, most of the country can see that. But Mrs May, apparently, cannot.
well most of the civil servants are remainers so it can't help.
ich; "The reason Brexit hasn’t happened is because the House of Commons has not backed the Brexit Deal. " - oh dear oh dear, the "deal" was never going to be accepted, it angered all sides of the HOQ in equal measure, even brexiteers say remaining is better. Maybe that was the point. The main reason we have not left is because most of the establishment don't want it to happen.
ich; "The reason Brexit hasn’t happened is because the House of Commons has not backed the Brexit Deal. " - oh dear oh dear, the "deal" was never going to be accepted, it angered all sides of the HOQ in equal measure, even brexiteers say remaining is better. Maybe that was the point. The main reason we have not left is because most of the establishment don't want it to happen.
Civil Servants tend to last longer than governments do, so it's not exactly new that the individuals are against some, most or all of the policies of their political masters. It doesn't make a difference. The job of a Civil Servant is to implement the policy regardless. If it's bad policy, then it won't go well, but that is generally not their fault.
It's complete nonsense, and a political cop-out, to blame Civil Servants for this mess.
It's complete nonsense, and a political cop-out, to blame Civil Servants for this mess.
Please use the correct word when talking about the "deal". It's a treaty which, as NJ observes, is a capitulation not an agreement between equals, although, unlike NJ, I think it was drafted exclusively by the EU's lawyers. Like other treaties signed by the vanquished, e.g. the Treaty of Versailles, it demands war reparations and the surrender of territory.
Versailles, of course, led to Hitler. (Anybody watch the recent two-parter on BBC "Hitler: the Rise of Evil", by the way?) It would be nice to think that the Brexit betrayal led to a determined, though British and principled resistance. Unfortunately the only likely response will be a sullen resentment and contempt for our parliamentary "representatives" and their allies in the media.
Versailles, of course, led to Hitler. (Anybody watch the recent two-parter on BBC "Hitler: the Rise of Evil", by the way?) It would be nice to think that the Brexit betrayal led to a determined, though British and principled resistance. Unfortunately the only likely response will be a sullen resentment and contempt for our parliamentary "representatives" and their allies in the media.
“Corbynistas” don’t rule the roost in parliament. Most Labour MPs are voting against the Brexit Deal as it fails the “five tests” so-called.
Certainly many in the party outside Parliament (and a few in), might like a no deal Brexit thinking that the ensuing economic problems would help Labour in a future election.
Other than that ... Naturally the opposition wants an election. Oppositions usually do if they think they might win :-)
Certainly many in the party outside Parliament (and a few in), might like a no deal Brexit thinking that the ensuing economic problems would help Labour in a future election.
Other than that ... Naturally the opposition wants an election. Oppositions usually do if they think they might win :-)
jim; //Civil Servants tend to last longer than governments do, //
There's no "tend to" in it, they do! and remaining in the EU makes their lives so much easier. The main plan is to have to do as little as possible, not rock the boat, ward off all obstacles to this, and hang on for retirement with a wonderful pension.
For them, Sir Humphrey wasn't so much a comedy character as a mentor.
There's no "tend to" in it, they do! and remaining in the EU makes their lives so much easier. The main plan is to have to do as little as possible, not rock the boat, ward off all obstacles to this, and hang on for retirement with a wonderful pension.
For them, Sir Humphrey wasn't so much a comedy character as a mentor.
"Many entire sections of our law will have to be totally rewritten !"
Not quite correct, Eddie.
The European Union Withdrawal Act (2018, not to be confused with the Letwin-Cooper Non-Withdrawal Act ostensibly of the same name but of 2019) provided for all existing EU law to be subsumed into UK law. Specifically (not my own words):
//To provide legal continuity, it will enable the transposition of directly-applicable already-existing EU law into UK law and so create a new category of domestic law for the United Kingdom: retained EU law. It will also give the government some restricted power to adapt and remove laws that are no longer relevant.//
Not quite correct, Eddie.
The European Union Withdrawal Act (2018, not to be confused with the Letwin-Cooper Non-Withdrawal Act ostensibly of the same name but of 2019) provided for all existing EU law to be subsumed into UK law. Specifically (not my own words):
//To provide legal continuity, it will enable the transposition of directly-applicable already-existing EU law into UK law and so create a new category of domestic law for the United Kingdom: retained EU law. It will also give the government some restricted power to adapt and remove laws that are no longer relevant.//
Stuff and nonsense, Khandro, it really is. Civil Servants do their jobs far, far better than you're giving them credit for, and it's frankly pathetic that Brexit supporters are so desperate for excuses as to why their pet project is failing that they need to turn to the administrators instead of the politicians... or even the policy.
"....and it's frankly pathetic that Brexit supporters are so desperate for excuses as to why their pet project is failing"
It's not a "pet project", Jim. It was a decision made by more than 17m people to take the country in a different direction. For the record, I don't blame civil servants. They may influence politicians but the politicians have the final say. It is quite clear that recent decisions demonstrate that Mrs May is not enthralled to her civil servants (Huawei; the prosecution of ex-servicemen; border control and landing cards). Politicians take the glory; politicians take the blame. The blame for this debacle lies fairly and squarely with politicians of all parties and at all levels but the principle blame - on all levels - rests with Mrs May.
It's not a "pet project", Jim. It was a decision made by more than 17m people to take the country in a different direction. For the record, I don't blame civil servants. They may influence politicians but the politicians have the final say. It is quite clear that recent decisions demonstrate that Mrs May is not enthralled to her civil servants (Huawei; the prosecution of ex-servicemen; border control and landing cards). Politicians take the glory; politicians take the blame. The blame for this debacle lies fairly and squarely with politicians of all parties and at all levels but the principle blame - on all levels - rests with Mrs May.
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