The Folly Of Self Harm As A Negotiating Strategy

[rich47]

It is accepted by most economists that a "no deal" brexit would cause untold damage to the UK.
How can it be a sensible tactic to say to your opposition "unless you agree with me I shall cut off my own head"? Please do not give any of the English Prime Ministerial candidates who espouse this approach your vote. Sorry, I forgot that no one has a vote unless they are a member of the tory party. Democracy??? ....humbug!!!!

[cassa333]

How about The folly of throwing out in its entirety your best, and under the EU circumstances probably only, negotiating hand?

That is folly to start any negotiations by saying we will not leave till you give us a deal.

The economic difficulties that could manifest with a no deal will undoubtedly be exasperated by not planning adequately.

If they plan accordingly the difficulties will be greatly lessened and shorter in duration.

But as has been said on countless times the Economy is the the be all and end all of the reason to leave the EU.

[cassa333]

Last line should be ‘NOT the be all and end all of the reason to leave the EU’

[New Judge]

//…but it is important to understand that NOTHING of any significance (industrial output) can be sold to the EU unless it complies with EU standards/requirements and is thus approved by the EU.//

Of course not. I would expect nothing else. But 19 out of 20 UK companies do not trade with EU countries. But they still have to comply with EU standards. How many other nations, do you think, compel their companies to comply with the trading standards of nations with whom they don’t trade? And how many countries insist that goods they do not import comply with their standards?

This is a fundamental drawback with the Single Market. It's great for those who trade within the market but not so clever for those who deal predominantly or even solely outside it.

The UK has decided that it wants to break away from Single Market membership. It was made quite clear in the run up to the referendum that membership of the Single Market would cease upon leaving. It's hardly sensible to only now suggest that we should consider the down side of departure from the Single Market. That consideration has already been made.

[KARL]

Anything for sale within the EU must comply with EU standards, agreed. Anything to be sold to where the required standards are different (110/115V AC for example, cars for another) can, must and does comply with those requirements, including products from within the EU, including UK manufacture - has done pretty much from the outset. To say that the UK must produce only goods to EU standard, including those for export to non-EU countries (if that is what is meant), is quite simply a fallacy, a myth, a non-truth.......deliberately misleading.

[webbo3]

douglas@13:46
I wonder what the attraction is for developed countries is to deal with an unshackled UK.

A great deal on steel?
'World class' financial services?
Artisan bread?
Upcycled furniture?
Second hand clothes?
Aircraft carriers unsullied by jets?
A half-built pointless railways?
Garden bridges?
A rosy glow?
Leather on willow?
Potholes?
General incompetence?
The Queen?

And what if Scotland managed to get independence and manged to join the EU could they offer the EU.

Oil
Heather
Whisky
Salmon
Snow
Rain

[retrocop]

Haggis?

[webbo3]

forgot about that ^,good spot.

[New Judge]

//To say that the UK must produce only goods to EU standard, including those for export to non-EU countries (if that is what is meant), is quite simply a fallacy, a myth, a non-truth.......deliberately misleading.//

If the manufacture of particular goods are subject to compliance with EU Directives and are they must comply with those directives and must bear the "CE" mark. So, if the manufacture of widgets are subject to EU directives and a manufacturer in Newcastle makes them, even if he has no intention of selling them beyond Tyneside, he must comply with the relevant EU directives. He must also comply if he intends to sell them only in Timbuktu and nowhere within the EU.

//And what if Scotland managed to get independence and manged to join the EU could they offer the EU.

Oil //

I'm quite sure that (a) if there's any left and (b) if Scotland can successfully argue that it is "theirs", the EU will lap it up graciously/

[Ellipsis]

> He must also comply if he intends to sell them only in Timbuktu and nowhere within the EU

He'll be selling them under these auspices at present ...

https://eeas.europa.eu/delegations/mali/11062/mali-and-eu_en

[KARL]

An item produced in Newcastle (while still in the EU) for sale in Newcastle (while still in the EU) will of course have to meet EU requirements, no surprise. An item made to meet non-EU standards which conflict with EU standards (for sale in say Japan, USA, etc.), will of necessity not comply with EU standards and will not therefore be passed as such (CE marked or other). Their manufacture within the EU (Newcastle or elsewhere) is not prohibited but they cannot be marketed in the EU (Newcastle or elsewhere). By the way, also the banana, cucumber, etc. myths are still myths, Brexit or no Brexit.

[ToraToraTora]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_Regulation_(EC)_No._2257/94

[KARL]

The link indicates an attempt to formulate a set of rules/descriptions of division into classes/quality, one which has been abandoned. Grown food is still subject to classification and has been for much longer than the existence of the EU. Producers choose whether to find a market for low quality food or else destroy it, such decisions are not made by the regulators.

[New Judge]

//Their manufacture within the EU (Newcastle or elsewhere) is not prohibited...//

I never suggested they were.

//By the way, also the banana, cucumber, etc. myths are still myths,//

I mentioned neither.

[Zacs-Master]

Go on, NJ.....
Give us that speech about lightbulbs again. I could do with a laugh.

[andy-hughes]

Spicerack - // Do enlighten us, oh wise one. //

I would, if I had the faintest idea what your post was talking about.

[Spicerack]

Well actually, I was agreeing with your post but before I finished typing I realised that there was another post (turned out to be 2) in the way so put (AH) to indicate who I was agreeing with.
The rest of my post was obviously addressing the OP who didn't think it was democratic for the Tories to pick the Tory leader.
HTH.

[KARL]

NJ, I must apologise, I am now completely lost as to what the point regarding EU standards being required within the EU was all about, but that in itself is not all that important.

[douglas9401]

Webbo and The Plod, coming soon to Live At The Apollo fresh from their Whataboutery tour.