Collective Conservative Lunacy

[rich47]

As the two candidates propose more and more extreme and impossible brexit solutions their tory minions seem eager to support them whatever. A case of mass bonkerism!!!
How do we save ourselves from this madness? At least the Scots can escape to Independent International outward looking progressive membership of the EU when what was once the UK departs to an isolationist friendless impoverished future.

[KARL]

Missing word: ".....I find insulting the premise....."

[New Judge]

//At least the Scots can escape to Independent International outward looking progressive membership of the EU..//

Explain to me how membership of the EU makes a nation "outward looking". The EU does all it can to protect its members (apart from the UK, that is) from international competition. Its tariff structure with the rest of the world does exactly that. Its Single Market is designed to ensure that member nations seek products and produce from within the EU rather than outside (hence the external tariffs on things such as rice and oranges). The EU may be many things but "outward looking" it definitely ain't.

[Old_Geezer]

It's the validity of a small country, rather than the competence of it's ministers, to being able to retain the existing standard of living, etc. that is more relevant. And the choice would be leave the EU, or leave both the EU and the UK. Surely it is clear it's best not to cut both ties at once.

[KARL]

O_G, the choice you left out is the one of leaving only the UK, which is what so many in Scotland aim for. Leaving the UK and staying in the EU cannot simply be assumed to put the standard of living at risk, the standard could scarcely get much worse (remaining as it will within Western Europe culturally and economically). By choosing to change there is at least the possibility of it getting better - for example to halfway between the (rest of) UK and the Nordic countries, Benelux, etc. all of which have populations of 10 million or fewer (some much fewer) - that would be huge.

Why is there such a persistent grumbling and poo-pooing within England against any notion of independence for Scotland, never an encouraging word - at the same time saying Scots are useless no-hopers ? Surely, if the negativity has any base at all there should be a clamour for Scotland's departure - and the same folk then claim they "would vote for it given the choice" which appears at odds, a kind of push-pull contradiction. It wouldn't be a kind of "Schadenhoffnung" over "leave me and you'll perish" would it ?

[Togo]

//Leaving the UK and staying in the EU cannot simply be assumed to put the standard of living at risk, the standard could scarcely get much worse (remaining as it will within Western Europe culturally and economically).//

Couple of small points.
5.8 million Population, 1.8 million tax payers.
Over the last 5 years, the Scots have had an average budget deficit of 8.3%. over the same time period they've received roughly £65 billion or £13billion yearly from the odious UK Government.
Does "remaining in Western Europe" culturally mean that the new social norm will be similar to Sweden's, and the new economic norm being similar to Greece?

[KARL]

Two points: Side-of-bus factual reliability; Schadenhoffnung

[Togo]

What do you think of the SNP's open borders policy and the intent to instigate an open borders policy with the rest of the World?

[KARL]

The SNP is entitled to have whatever policy it deems appropriate.

[naomi24]

Togo, I didn't know that's their policy. Crikey! Doesn't that worry their supporters?

[Togo]

I know...…..but what do you think of the latest proposal of the SNP to instigate mass immigration into Scotland?

[naomi24]

And their supporters know about all this?

[Togo]

Oh yes indeed Naomi. The latest "final solution" for Scotland from Ben MacPherson, the SNP's Migration Minister. Quote..

“Currently the UK Government has a cap on numbers but that hasn’t worked and actually we need to grow our population in Scotland,” asserted Ben MacPherson MSP in comments reported by The Scotsman — without ever explaining why this was such an imperative, or why immigration was a superior means of achieving it to Hungarian-style pro-family policies.
“We could decide to have a lower salary threshold, we could decide to have no salary threshold, we could decide not to have an immigration skills charge, we could decide if we wanted to emulate Freedom of Movement from the European Economic Area [the European Union plus Norway, Iceland, and Liechtenstein],” he said, describing a system under which virtually anyone would be free to come to Scotland with few requirements and minimal vetting — and no reals of preventing them from migrating southward to England and Wales once after their arrival.
MacPherson said progress in persuading the British government to devolve these powers was “slow” but that he believed they were “making traction”.

Perhaps MacPherson hopes to convince the Scottish voters that they will all "move on". I like to believe that once we are out and Scotland alone is still in the EUSSR, then all the new and exciting cultural enhancements that we have enjoyed will decide that they do indeed want to be "Western Europeans" after all...……..and move to Scotland. :))

[Peter Pedant]

// Ill informed, wrong and delusional. Good luck to little England.//

hmm yaaah - I thought you might quickly discover that the 'b' in AB is 'bonkers'
but hey that just shows that the tiddly tories arent the only bonkers' party

OK bojo joke coming up ( hey no not Bojo himself as the joke - that's unfair ! ) - bojo - for it is he - fwubbles hair into a tow-haired mass - and says "crikey I didnt realise that, perceive(*) the er, think that bonkers meant 'mad'! - I always thought, felt - er conceived(*) - that bonking was ...."
Loyal hack puts paper bag over Bojos head
'hey the lights are out, er extinguished, dark,(*) cripes whats happening?'
time for your after noon rest bo.

(*) hey clock the repeats of three ( tricolons ) in Bojo's oratory

[naomi24]

Togo, Gobsmacked!

//I like to believe that once we are out and Scotland alone is still in the EUSSR,//

...that we have a very secure border with Scotland!

[jim360]

I guess you have to admire the effort of justifying Brexit as somehow a way of opening the UK up to the world, but it's still utter bunkum. For starters, being in the EU is absolutely not a barrier to trading with the world, as the recent Trade deals with Japan, Canada, Brazil, Argentina, much of Africa, etc etc etc... demonstrate. Secondly, good luck trying to convince the world you're worth dealing with when you've just spent the last few years tearing up the most comprehensive trade and security agreement in the world, and then negotiating for two years and tearing up the results of *that* negotiation, too.

How this fits in, or doesn't, with Scotland is anyone's guess, but it's clear that a No Deal Brexit is at least extremely likely to invite the question over Scottish Independence again, let alone seeing a return of the Irish Question.

[jim360]

Also, it is kind of worrying that Conservative members not only dismiss all these warnings but also tend not to care even if they were true. In order to get Brexit, Tories seem only too happy to risk the Union, the economy, even their own party. The only thing they couldn't contemplate is a few years of Corbyn. Not exactly inspiring confidence.

[Togo]

// extremely likely to invite the question over Scottish Independence again,//
and again, and again,and…...Anything is. It went from once in a lifetime, to once in a generation, and on to once in a political generation(whatever that is). Nicola Smidgeon has nothing else to offer the minorities in Scotland, it is her only tune. Whilst the Scots tolerate her, even rejoice when she is being deliberately antagonistic, she will keep warbling.

[Togo]

You are wrong about most things Jim but I will grant that you are right regarding the destruction of the Conservative party. We will happily destroy it, or at least what is has become under the care of Major, Cameron, and May. The Brexit party will benefit, and form a Government that carries out the wishes of a majority.

[naomi24]

//No Deal Brexit is at least extremely likely to invite the question over Scottish Independence again//

Good. Given the opportunity perhaps the rest of us would help them on their way.

[rich47]

Poor Togo his views are really off the wall but he is welcome to join the army of Brexit lemmings determined to head for their cliff edge despite any warnings.