What If The Labour Party Got Rid Of...
Politics4 mins ago
Nicola Not A Happy Bunny
It seems our beloved first minister did not put on her happy face when meeting Boris today in Scotland,Boris will not agree to a second referendum on independence for Scotland,he said the first result should stand and he is right,in my opinion.
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Can anybody smart like Jim explain why the Scots' desire to be independent of Westminster (where their MPs are legislators) on the one hand, and their determination to remain within the EU where law is made by an unelected body called the Commission on the other, are not self-contradictory aspirations?
//An independent Scotland, as a small nation but a full member of the EU, would be a massively rich nation as a net benefactor//
Ah, I see that now: the Barnett formula morphs into a Barnier formula. Unfortunately for our Scottish friends (and I care to view them as such) and "independent" Scotland would beforced to join the Euro and sign up to Schengen, wouldn't it?
I don't see the spirit of "Braveheart" in any of this: these are not "proud" Scots; they don't mind being slaves just as long as their bellies are full and the English are not the masters.
Have I got that right?
Ah, I see that now: the Barnett formula morphs into a Barnier formula. Unfortunately for our Scottish friends (and I care to view them as such) and "independent" Scotland would beforced to join the Euro and sign up to Schengen, wouldn't it?
I don't see the spirit of "Braveheart" in any of this: these are not "proud" Scots; they don't mind being slaves just as long as their bellies are full and the English are not the masters.
Have I got that right?
// Can anybody smart like Jim .......mmission on the other, are not self-contradictory aspirations? //
o scribble scribble scribble - another damned long question to answer! [mixed: George III and V, bits of.]
er Yes - transactional (*) - the Scots think that is the way to get the most out of a confusing situation - egged on and misled by one Nicola S, who wishes above all to sit at the High Table in Brussels and be a Head of State.
Trumpo is transactional they say - thinks ( or finks) what can I get out of this and frack the rest of them, no matter - and if there is no advantage for me then it dont get done
predecessors like Kennedy FDR, Lincoln, must be turning in their graves
o scribble scribble scribble - another damned long question to answer! [mixed: George III and V, bits of.]
er Yes - transactional (*) - the Scots think that is the way to get the most out of a confusing situation - egged on and misled by one Nicola S, who wishes above all to sit at the High Table in Brussels and be a Head of State.
Trumpo is transactional they say - thinks ( or finks) what can I get out of this and frack the rest of them, no matter - and if there is no advantage for me then it dont get done
predecessors like Kennedy FDR, Lincoln, must be turning in their graves
"Scotland would beforced to join the Euro"
Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Sweden and the UK.
"sign up to Schengen"
Albania, Andora, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Cyprus, Georgia, Ireland, Kosovo, Macedonia, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Romania, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Turkey, Ukraine and the UK.
Bulgaria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Denmark, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Sweden and the UK.
"sign up to Schengen"
Albania, Andora, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Belarus, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Croatia, Cyprus, Georgia, Ireland, Kosovo, Macedonia, Moldova, Monaco, Montenegro, Romania, Russia, San Marino, Serbia, Turkey, Ukraine and the UK.
Just to say, v-e, that I essentially agree with the idea that Scotland should want to stay in the UK for more or less the same reasons that it wants to stay in the EU. Playing Devil's Advocate, though, the contradiction presumably arises now, at least, partly because some Scots may be worried that there is a choice to be made between remaining in the UK and remaining in the EU -- and, based on the results in 2014 and 2016, it seems Scotland would overall prefer the EU if they could only be in one.
But an independent Scotland's status in the EU would presumably not be too bad for it in some ways. Being a relatively small country in a relatively large union would help Scotland punch above its weight internationally. So there's some logic to wanting to be in the EU.
All the same, I wish Scottish Independence as an idea would die off.
But an independent Scotland's status in the EU would presumably not be too bad for it in some ways. Being a relatively small country in a relatively large union would help Scotland punch above its weight internationally. So there's some logic to wanting to be in the EU.
All the same, I wish Scottish Independence as an idea would die off.
// Ah, I see that now: the Barnett formula morphs into a Barnier formula. Unfortunately for our Scotti...yap yap yap blaah blaaah blaah///
o cut this pseudo socratic crap - Barnett ( sixties politician - Joel) had nothing to do with Barnier (EU negotiator 2019)
xc their names begin with a 'B'
Barnier doesnt even have a formula
- oh but lets pretend he does ....because its clearer if we do
the scots are doing it because they think they will gain
simples ( J K Galbraith probably)
o cut this pseudo socratic crap - Barnett ( sixties politician - Joel) had nothing to do with Barnier (EU negotiator 2019)
xc their names begin with a 'B'
Barnier doesnt even have a formula
- oh but lets pretend he does ....because its clearer if we do
the scots are doing it because they think they will gain
simples ( J K Galbraith probably)
//Being a relatively small country in a relatively large union would help Scotland punch above its weight internationally//
I don't get the "punch above its weight" bit, Jim EU's weight is economic in that it can, perhaps, do something about Bezo's tax avoidance schemes. Any political influence will be driven by Franco-German ones, and not by Scotland's.
Currently Scotland punches above its weight economically by the export of whisky. In the previous three centuries it punched well above its weight by its export of scientific excellence. That vein of precious metal has been exhausted it would seem.
I don't get the "punch above its weight" bit, Jim EU's weight is economic in that it can, perhaps, do something about Bezo's tax avoidance schemes. Any political influence will be driven by Franco-German ones, and not by Scotland's.
Currently Scotland punches above its weight economically by the export of whisky. In the previous three centuries it punched well above its weight by its export of scientific excellence. That vein of precious metal has been exhausted it would seem.
JimF -- for more or less the same reason that I wish Brexit would die off as an idea. I think it's better when countries are more closely tied together as opposed to trying to be separate entities.
v-e -- well, perhaps. But Ireland hasn't done too badly out of EU membership -- nor, so far as I'm aware, have many of the Eastern European countries, many of whom joined at more or less the same time that the interest in the UK for leaving was beginning to grow.
v-e -- well, perhaps. But Ireland hasn't done too badly out of EU membership -- nor, so far as I'm aware, have many of the Eastern European countries, many of whom joined at more or less the same time that the interest in the UK for leaving was beginning to grow.
The other aspect of "influence", Jim, is, of course, military power: how many divisions has the Pope?
The total combined army of all EU members is less than that of North Korea's, isn't it? A country which doesn't appear even in the top one hundred countries ranked by wealth.
That might you pause. It took poor uneducated Arabs (but enthused with with a sense of mission and the martial spirit) less than a century to conquer all of the Sassanid empire, all of the Western Roman empire's territories in the Northern Afica and Spain, and all of the Eastern Roman Empire's Levantine and Anatolian territories saving only Constantinople itself. Five hundred years later nomads living in tents sacked Baghdad.
The total combined army of all EU members is less than that of North Korea's, isn't it? A country which doesn't appear even in the top one hundred countries ranked by wealth.
That might you pause. It took poor uneducated Arabs (but enthused with with a sense of mission and the martial spirit) less than a century to conquer all of the Sassanid empire, all of the Western Roman empire's territories in the Northern Afica and Spain, and all of the Eastern Roman Empire's Levantine and Anatolian territories saving only Constantinople itself. Five hundred years later nomads living in tents sacked Baghdad.
//But Ireland hasn't done too badly out of EU membership//
I'm not au fait with the details, Jim. But the "Celtic Tiger" took a big hit after Lehman's, didn't it? It has been suggested (and I can't remember, far less verify the source - maybe NJ will) that the UK was more helpful to the Republic in its banking crisis than the EU was.
I'm not au fait with the details, Jim. But the "Celtic Tiger" took a big hit after Lehman's, didn't it? It has been suggested (and I can't remember, far less verify the source - maybe NJ will) that the UK was more helpful to the Republic in its banking crisis than the EU was.
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