Oh Dear, The Penny Drops....

[ToraToraTora]

https://labourlist.org/2019/09/labour-mps-prepare-to-vote-against-early-election/
Jezza was running around like Dizzy Lizzie earlier, it seems the PLP have just realised that they'd get Tub cuffed on prime time! Could we be heading for Boris calling a VONC in himself and Labour not backing it? strange times indeed!

[ichkeria]

Apparently he can’t - as was suggested earlier - veto his own request for an extension at the Brussels summit as there is a clause in Article 50 that prevents a country vetoing it’s own attempt to do so!
A VONC in itself tabled by the govt would be hilarious.
Can you imagine the speeches ...

[Gromit]

It is clear that Johnson has been planning a General Election since day one of his tenure in No.10. He realises that May’s big mistake was to force an untimely election and he doesn’t want to repeat it. Like May, Johnson wants an election because he considers it opportunist to do so.
Labour also want a General Election (whether they are in any condition to win one is mute). But they are right to avoid what is clearly a trap, and not vote for an election before Oct 31st.

[ichkeria]

Boris Johnson should have held the election when he became PM.
The Tories may lead in the polls now but if an election does come it will have been effectively forced on him and that is not a good place to be.

[New Judge]

//Apparently he can’t - as was suggested earlier - veto his own request for an extension at the Brussels summit as there is a clause in Article 50 that prevents a country vetoing it’s own attempt to do so!//

No he cannot. Article 50(3):

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

Then 50(4):

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Councilor in decisions concerning it.

So the UK representatives play no part in discussing an extension to the deadline.

[ichkeria]

Indeed that was what was quoted and makes sense.

[Gromit]

On the telly someone is arguing that Labour and LibDem MPs will vote for a General Election, because otherwise they will have to wait until 2022.

But if Johnson does deselect 20 MPs, his Government will not be able get anything passed. A VONC could be invoked anytime at the Oppositions choosing. After Oct 31 or even after Jan 31.

[Jackdaw33]

Now we see the damage the FTPA 2011 can cause. Without it Boris could have gone to see the Queen tomorrow, dissolved parliament and have an election on a date of his own choosing.

[Togo]

//But if Johnson does deselect 20 MPs, his Government will not be able get anything passed.//

Don't be silly. Boris deselects them after the G.E. is called and removes the whip from May and the organ grinder Hammond then kicks them both out of the party.

[Jackdaw33]

...along with Clark, Letwin, Gauke, Stewart and the rest of the rats who are not fit to call themselves Tory.

[Gromit]

// Don't be silly. Boris deselects them after the G.E. is called //

Nope. Some have already been dismissed tonight.

[THECORBYLOON]

TOGO, Tory MPs who vote against the Government will not stand as Tory MPs at the next General Election.

That suggests the whip will be withdrawn prior to an election.

[jim360]

// Without it Boris could have gone to see the Queen tomorrow, dissolved parliament and have an election on a date of his own choosing. //

I'm surprised you can't see the game Johnson is playing. His entire aim is to be forced into an election, so that he can claim that you need to back him against Parliament. If he just called an election without that appearance of being forced into it, that would entirely undermine his strategy.

All the same, I agree that the FTPA has been a farce.

[jim360]

Also, as the article mentions, another reason for Labour MPs to vote against a GE also depends on the terms under which it's called. Under the FTPA, the PM still has the power to choose a date (even after a motion and timetable), so the fear is that Johnson would trigger an election under FTPA, schedule it for October 14th, then change it to one or even two weeks later, thus trapping us into a no-deal exit while Parliament is dissolved.

So the plan might be to ensure, as far as possible, that legislation to postpone No Deal is in place before triggering a GE. I mean, yes, Labour MPs should watch out, and I am sure that the next GE will see a great many seats change hands left, right and centre. But still, there are other reasons to at least try and ensure a GE doesn't take place on Johnson's terms.

[ToraToraTora]

"So the fear is that Johnson would trigger an election under FTPA, schedule it for October 14th, then change it to one or even two weeks later, thus trapping us into a no-deal exit while Parliament is dissolved." worried about your £20 jim?

[jim360]

Haha, that too :) But whoever loses it goes to a good cause at least!

[Jackdaw33]

The problem is, will parliament grant him a GE? The Opposition don't want to be seen playing into his hands. Without that he is more or less Donald.

[Gromit]

They have already changed the prospective election date. Apparently 14th October is a Jewish holiday.

[Peter Pedant]

// Now we see the damage the FTPA 2011 can cause. ........d parliament and have an election on a date of his own choosing.//

erm no it has to be 40 d after the dissolution AND on a thursday innit ?

also he can repeal the fixed term act ( if he has a majority hur hur hur)

or pass a one line act
"there shall be a general election on so and so"

[Peter Pedant]

// Without that he is more or less Donald.//

is there really someone called Donald Fracked? I think I might go to bed