Lockdown?

[maggiebee]

There is a lot of speculation about if and when lockdown will be eased. Having read this, I for one would be happy to wait a while longer.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1278489/Spain-coronavirus-latest-state-of-emergency-pedro-sanchez

[Spicerack]

Do you think pensioners and non-workers are more comfortable with continued lockdown?
Do public sector workers get their full pay whether they go in or not, does anyone know?
It seems to be becoming a right/left divide, imo.

[woofgang]

if they work from home they are paid for their work. The guidance says that public sector workers who cannot do their normal jobs should be redeployed to other jobs although furlough may be allowable in some jobs in a small number of cases. https://www.kingsleynapley.co.uk/services/department/employment/employers/the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme-faqs-for-uk-employers

[New Judge]

The alternative is to keep the country in hibernation for many months, if not years. The virus will not go away until it either mutates into a another strain or reaches the end of its lifecycle. All viruses seem to do this but it will take some time. It is simply not feasible for the country to remain in this state until then. To suggest that it must in order to enable the NHS to cope is plainly ridiculous. At present it is suggested that the NHS has ample capacity. One "Nightingale" hospital has been mothballed after dealing with around 100 patients; another has never seen a single patient of any description. The NHS will not be able to cope with anything at all if the country's funds are depleted beyond a certain level.

So, if you accept that (a) the virus will not disappear any time soon and (b) the nation's coffers to do anything, let alone fight a pandemic, will soon be dry (and I would add (c) that predictions of its effects are, to say the least, questionable but you can leave that out if you wish), what's your alternative?

[woofgang]

as one of the pensioners mentioned, neither I nor my sister are happy in lockdown but we don't fancy dying either and don't like the idea of being dosed with curare and ventilated.

[woofgang]

So you'd like to see people die NJ?

[diddlydo]

NJ makes very relevant and valid points. As a pensioner (who would have been working this summer had not exams been scrapped)I'm prepared to take my chances and end lockdown - smallish steps at first but then everything open by the end of June. People can make their own choices as to whether they want to continue living as self-isolating hermits or whether to get a life back (even if that ends in death).

[dannyk13]

Nj, The alternative is to keep people safe until a vaccine is found.Your reference to hospitals being closed is because there are not enough medical staff to man them.

[Canary42]

/// One "Nightingale" hospital has been mothballed after dealing with around 100 patients; another has never seen a single patient of any description. ///

The mothballing was because of lack of nurses (Brexit sent them all home). There are plenty of candidates dying in their thousands in care homes who could well do with Nightingale accommodation, but it seems our adoration for WW2 veterans only applies to those who served in the forces, not the children who suffered at home, many of whom are now in care homes.

[douglas9401]

"So you'd like to see people die NJ?"

It's hyperbolic leaps of logic like that that made this country what it is.

One day we'll look back on this time and squirm with embarrassment.

[diddlydo]

Wrong- mothballed because not needed as the NHS has plenty of capacity. Witness the fact that the NHS is now resuming routine stuff that had been put on hold because of Covid.

[Spicerack]

If the vaccine takes a year, 18 months, Danny? They may not develop a working vaccine. How long do you think you'll get your pension without people working?

[jim360]

I thought we were due a vaccine by the end of the year.

No, but, seriously. It isn't a binary choice. The economy will also be gutted if a great many people are either sick or dying, which is what could be reasonably expected if the disease spiralled out of control. Either directly or indirectly, Covid-19 proliferating wrecks the economy whether or not direct measures like the lockdown were taken.

[jim360]

Also, this hasn't proven anything like the "lies, damned lies, and statistics" thing. As is usually the case the problem isn't in the data but in the sometimes lazy interpretation of it, but nobody can seriously argue that having more data and more information hinders understanding.

[cassa333]

The death rate will inevitably rise after lock down regardless of the length. Lockdown wasn’t to kill the virus but spread the load. And TBH with what we know of the virus and how sunlight and heat actual kills it quicker on surfaces, now is the perfect time to ease lockdown.

Anyone who can afford to stay in lock down and wants to should do so.

Any business that is able to open safety within the health regulations should do so and people should still use social distancing and PPE where appropriate.

Otherwise we will not get past lockdown any time soon.

People more vulnerable to the virus should be encouraged to remain in quarantine but there should be better help available to them.

[cassa333]

Oh for the love of dog. How utterly purple can a comment be that says just because someone says they want to ease lockdown they want people to die!

If you think for one minute you can keep people locked down indefinitely then you have a screw lose.

[jim360]

It's wrong to present it as a binary choice. The economy won't be rescued by coming out of lockdown as long as the virus is still able to spread widely and lead to as many deaths as it's still doing. That's the point.

[NickorWan]

//The majority of Spain is currently in Phase Zero but will jump to Phase One on May 11th if the regions are given the individual go-ahead from the government.//

That last bit is key as areas where there are still a lot of recorded cases and/or hospitalisations haven't been given the go-ahead. We haven't in Girona, neither has Barcelona or Madrid.

[naomi24]

The sooner businesses open again and people get back to work the sooner the economy will start moving and growing again - that’s the point. Thousands have continued working throughout and there’s no good reason that those who aren’t vulnerable can’t join them. This situation cannot possibly continue indefinitely. It’s naive to think it can.

[woofgang]

canary, the Nightingale hospitals were set up to give patients ventilation or at very least PAP oxygen plus all the other therapies which support this . I have said this more than once on here and its very sad but true that for many of the people in care homes, such therapy is neither kind nor appropriate. They aren't spry elderly who just prefer a hotel lifestyle, they are physically VERY frail, suffering with Alzheimers or both often with compromised immunity as well. Heroic medical measures are unlikely to work even if they could be administered and are often a source of terror to to patient who won't tolerate masks, drips and so on....added to this they will be in a strange setting being cared for by strangers in serious PPE.....essentially, as I have said before, with the best will in the world, you torture them both physically and mentally and then they die anyway. Dr Jenny has commented on this tactfully, referring to "humane decision making" This humane decision making is a part of caring for frail elderly folk whatever illness they might have, its not a question of "Oh they have got Covid let them die." but it is a fact.

[jim360]

Can't continue indefinitely but it can't end prematurely either.