Edward Colston - Was He Such Bad Guy?

[ToraToraTora]

the first line of his wikipedia entry:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Colston#Altruism_and_politics
"He supported and endowed schools, almshouses, hospitals and churches in Bristol, London and elsewhere. Many of his charitable foundations survive to this day" - yes he was a Slave trader but at that time so was the world and his wife. Many slave traders were black Africans. Not saying that excuses it but that was how it was at the time. Seems a little over the top to topple his statue 300 years after his death.

[ToraToraTora]

ok I'm off to bed, If this post survives I look forward to the howls and outpourings in the morning. night night.

[royfromaus]

They should not have toppled his statue...this is not Baghdad.

He was as bad as the black slave traders.

White slave trader bad
Black slave trader bad

[Buenchico]

The Bristol Music Trust's reasons for renaming the Colston Hall seem sound enough to me:
http://www.colstonhall.org/news/transformation/colston-hall-name-change/

[Mamyalynne]

There has been unease about that statue for decades now, no they should not have toppled it.

Many cruel people have put in place schooling,healthcare and spiritual guidance to protect their charges much as the Mill Barons did.

Whether it exonerates them from their dark side is a more personal viewpoint.

[lady-janine]

Getting rid of his statue legally is more excusable but now they should get rid of everything he instigated and all other institutions he endowed. Close them all down immediately and not replace them. Then perhaps the hooligans would be appeased. They could raise the money to replace them perhaps.

[JimF]

It's the Jimmy Savile argument, isn't it? How many millions did he raise for Stoke Mandeville and other charities? It in no way excuses his dreadful behaviour, but if you'd ever met anyone who'd been made able to walk again after a horrific spinal injury, they might have a different take on it.

[david small]

Nearly every country on the planet has had slaves for millennia. Nothing new. We just make hypocritical noises about it nowadays.

[lady-janine]

I seem to remember from history lessons (admittedly a long time ago) that most nations have been enslaved at one time, and most nations have engaged in the trade. I am not condoning it or excusing it in any way but surely there must been another way this matter can be addressed. Rioting and looting and other antisocial behaviour cannot be and should be allowed to be the answer.

[lady-janine]

Surely Jimmy Savile only raised money to give himself a cover for the wrongs he committed.

[Mozz71]

Jim, I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're really stretching the analogy by using Savile as an example.

I would hope that anyone who has been succesfully rehabilitated at Stoke Mandeville would gladly give back their (not life-saving) treatment in prder to undo Savile's crimes against hundreds of children.

[Barmaid]

By the standards then, not really. Absolutely abhorrent now, as are many other things, by today's standards.

I often wondered if a way to deal with the statue was to surround it with some form of representation of the inhumanity of the slave trade and turn it into a memorial.

But then if this were a statue of saville I'd say take it down. But legally, not by a mob.

[JimF]

"I would hope that anyone who has been successfully rehabilitated at Stoke Mandeville would gladly give back their (not life-saving) treatment in order to undo Savile's crimes against hundreds of children."

I can only reply to that that you are naive beyond belief! Having known someone who went through precisely that process after breaking his neck in a horrific accident, and being paralysed from the waist down for nearly two years, the sight of him walking (OK, shuffling) towards me along a Stoke Mandeville corridor will never leave me! And the thought that he would, in the light of hindsight, forego his treatment because it had been part-funded by a kiddie-fiddler would I'm sure have left him in baffled hysterics.

Do you honestly think it would have been better for my friend to have remained in his wheelchair for the remainder of his life, and never have regained his ability to walk, to drive, to walk his daughter down the aisle on her wedding day?

[Mozz71]

//Do you honestly think it would have been better for my friend to have remained in his wheelchair for the remainder of his life, and never have regained his ability to walk, to drive, to walk his daughter down the aisle on her wedding day?//

Well, while I'm happy for your friend, if I could undo the crimes of Jimmy Savile, a man who raped and molested hundreds of children and young women, by being wheelchair bound for the rest of my life, I'd take the wheels.

Obviously, the above is a hypothetical, as those crimes cannot be undone. With that in mind, of course I have absolutely no issue with anyone having treatment at Stoke Mandeville.

[JimF]

"I'd take the wheels"

You wouldn't. You really wouldn't. After the first couple of days, weeks, months you'd be screaming for your recovery back.

[youngmafbog]

One has to wonder why such statues are still up, should be in a museum.

"Close them all down immediately and not replace them. Then perhaps the hooligans would be appeased."

No, that sends the message you will get what you want through mob rule.

[youngmafbog]

"Edward Colston - Was He Such Bad Guy?"

In his time, no. But the World has moved on now so as I suggest above time to move all such statues to a museum so history is not lost but also they are not lauded.

[Bobbisox1]

I believe the statue should have been taken down but by the proper way, the people there have lobbied the council to have it removed and allegedly it fell on deaf ears, I’m not okay with the vandalism here though, which is the next one to be vandalised ?
Any symbol of Slavery has no part in today’s society , the council should have listened to the people of Bristol

[Ellipsis]

Yes he was a bad guy. He traded in people.

It's normal to tear down the statues of your oppressors on achieving freedom. In this case, I fear the protesters were a bit premature.

[Jackdaw33]

Another slave trader was John Newton, who later became an Anglican priest and who wrote Amazing Grace.

[tiggerblue10]

John Newton was a slave himself at one point.